Branstetter Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Here's a few photos of my recent forge build. Sold the last one because I overbuilt it for what I ended up using it for, three burners was too much with out a power running all the time. So this one rattled around in my head for awhile before finding its way out to the table. Basically just 10" X 10"" X 16" outside dimensions. And 6" X 6" X 14" inside volume. Using Kast o lite 30 refractory. Will be making a couple 1" thick refractory bricks to effectively decrease the volume as needed for different projects. The burner is the fun part that challenged my thinking. I like the ribbon burners but haven't had access to a blower yet. So I decided to try a multi port atmospheric type using materials I have laying around the shed. Ended up with eight 9/16" diameter ports fed through a manifold from a single 1" tube and .035" MIG tip. The 'trombone' slide on the burner tube was just a result of the material I had. And the only thing it does is change the sound of the jet (imagine that...) very little noticeable effect on the combustion chamber. I do like the fact that I can easily remove it from the manifold when not in use. First bench test fire went better than I expected. I had to turn the pressure down to about 3 psi to get it to burn back into the manifold. Cranked it to 20 to see what it would do, no benefit past that. Interestingly there was very little difference from about 12 psi on up. I'll have to try with another guage to make sure the readings are good. Might be dealing with a low flow fitting at the tank. Anyway, have a look and let me know what you think. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockmaker Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Well this is as interesting as can be. Thank you for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 This is very interesting. Can you give a photo of the interior with the burner in place but not lit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Interesting indeed. I'm curious about a few things which you may not have determined yet. Are you able to change the atmosphere inside the forge from oxidizing to neutral to reducing? Have you determined if you can reach forge welding temperatures in there? How is the noise compared to something like a single 3/4 inch NA burner? Sorry for all the questions, but I'm guessing I'm not the only one who wants more info. Thanks for posting this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branstetter Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Thanks for the feedback! Buzzkill, I do have a sleeve choke on the jet so I guess the answer is yes to changing ing the atmosphere inside. I've only had it running for a couple days so I'm anticipating getting it dialed in as I go. So far I have not reached a welding temp. But I'm still playing with a few adjustments. I think my regulator is the limiting factor right now. Have a new high flow unit in the mail. I'll report back the results as soon as I can. So far it's nice and quiet on the burner side. The jet actually makes more noise than the burner. I'm playing with the idea of a intake muffler of some sort. After that it should be much more tolerable. Compared to my old 3/4" triple set up, like a lawn mower vs a small turbine powered aircraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 How long have you let it burn? A 1" burner should be enough burner to melt steel in that baby. I've discovered it's easy to run my multi port at too low psi which results in back firing after it gets hot. Having so much of your set up in open air should go a long way to eliminating the issue. My only concern would be burning up the steel port nozzles. Looking good so far. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branstetter Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Frosty, thanks! I've been picking through some of your posts for awhile. Got a lot of useful info out of it too. I ran it about 2 hours straight last night. And an hour so far today. It'll only backfire when I turn the flow way down. Even when at full temp. I was actually expecting a bit more of a sound and light show as it was rolling around in the thought processor. Nice surprise really. I confirmed my thoughts of the low flow fittings today. The POL has a excess flow check valve in it. Keeps it right about 16-18 PSI max. As soon as I get the new regulator I can really see what trouble I can create. The burner nozzles are actually recessed into the refractory about 1-1/4". I figure the diameter change helps the ventury effect, or not. Either way the same type of set up has held up well on previous builds. Heres the first product out of the new set up. A knife shaped rail spike letter opener. Got a big batch going for Christmas presents. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 Good stuff. Have you tried a .045 mig tip with that setup? That's about the size I'd normally expect with a 1 inch diameter straight tube NA burner, but not sure that's optimum for your setup. The tinkerer in me wants to go out and give something like this a try as soon as ... well yesterday, but there's that whole job, life, and holiday thing in the way at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 19 hours ago, Branstetter said: Ended up with eight 9/16" diameter ports fed through a manifold from a single 1" tube and .035" MIG tip. The 'trombone' Branstetter, can you tell us a little about how you came to your calculations for eight, 9/16 orifices? Was is arbitrary, did you try Frosty's method with a 2x4 w/drilled holes, or an entirely different method of calculation altogether? Pretty neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 I'm interested in how you came up with the number of outlets to use too. I think you could shorten the sleeve from the plenum to the torch and get a little better performance, it looks to be burning a LITTLE rich in the pics but not enough to try very hard to correct. As it is now a larger get won't help, the choke is open all the way and it's still slightly rich, a larger jet would make it really rich. What make is the original torch you based this burner on? I don't think you bent the SS tube yourself did you? It's obviously been modified. No issue I just like knowing what I'm looking at. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branstetter Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 Buzzkill, I'd did try a .045" and it seemed to be a bit too rich. I even tried a .062" I had kicking around from the copper mine days. Interesting ball of fire from that one. But that was all done with the limited flow of the safety POL fitting. So we'll see what changes with the higher flowing regulator. I totally understand finding the time can be a challenge. Just don't wait too long. Life has a way of throwing things at you when you least expect it. I've had the opportunity over the last few years to have plenty of free time to play with this stuff. Although I'd rather have a real job again, no one wants to hire a terminally ill cancer patient. So as I wait for this nasty sickness to slowly pick away at my body I refuse to sit on the couch and wait for it to get me. Between playing with my toys, fire and hammers, I also do some consulting work for local fab shops. Can't stop, it might catch up with me... Ede, I'd like to say that I did a bunch of super complicated math to come up with this ratio, but I didn't. Basically I did an experiment based on my hands on experience over the years. With a large amount of educated guesswork in there for good measure. All the while knowing that it might not work at all. I did do some basic math to make sure there would be more 'out' area than 'in' area. Turns out that a 3:1 ration with this configuration works very well so far. And this is the first prototype! I already have plans to make the next one, or three out of some stainless I've had in my junk collection. Fully TIG welded and cast into a nice block of refractory. Ready for whatever custom installation needed. I'm always looking for ways to get me back to work. Thanks for the feedback everyone! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branstetter Posted December 21, 2016 Author Share Posted December 21, 2016 38 minutes ago, Frosty said: I'm interested in how you came up with the number of outlets to use too. I think you could shorten the sleeve from the plenum to the torch and get a little better performance, it looks to be burning a LITTLE rich in the pics but not enough to try very hard to correct. As it is now a larger get won't help, the choke is open all the way and it's still slightly rich, a larger jet would make it really rich. What make is the original torch you based this burner on? I don't think you bent the SS tube yourself did you? It's obviously been modified. No issue I just like knowing what I'm looking at. Frosty The Lucky. I'm going to do a CAD drawing in a couple days of the details of this thing. Anyone that might like to have a closer look can just ask and I'll send a PDF their way. Of course I'll be tuning it in as time goes on. The valve and hose assembly was part of my weed burner that I took apart. That's why it's got the flow restrictor. All of the other materials I used for this build came from my collection of stuff over the years. I didn't bend this tube. That piece used to be part of the handle of a treadmill. It's all mild steel. Now that I know it works I'll be getting into the stainless stash for the next one. I want to try a smaller tip when I get the flow restrictor out of the mix. But .035" is the smallest tip I have access to at the moment. I have made smaller orifices by inserting a .025" 316ss wire into a MIG tip and smacking it down and pulling it out. Not the most elegant way but it worked. Thanks, John 14 hours ago, JHCC said: This is very interesting. Can you give a photo of the interior with the burner in place but not lit? Sure. I'll try to get it tomorrow before I lite it up. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 4 hours ago, Branstetter said: I'm going to do a CAD drawing in a couple days of the details of this thing. Anyone that might like to have a closer look can just ask and I'll send a PDF their way. Of course I'll be tuning it in as time goes on. The valve and hose assembly was part of my weed burner that I took apart. That's why it's got the flow restrictor. All of the other materials I used for this build came from my collection of stuff over the years. I didn't bend this tube. That piece used to be part of the handle of a treadmill. It's all mild steel. Now that I know it works I'll be getting into the stainless stash for the next one. I want to try a smaller tip when I get the flow restrictor out of the mix. But .035" is the smallest tip I have access to at the moment. I have made smaller orifices by inserting a .025" 316ss wire into a MIG tip and smacking it down and pulling it out. Not the most elegant way but it worked. Thanks, John Sure. I'll try to get it tomorrow before I lite it up. Thanks, John This is all fascinating, especially since I too am thinking of using the hose etc from a weed burner as the gas supply for my first gas forge. I'll PM you my email address for a copy of that CAD PDF. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aessinus Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 2 hours ago, JHCC said: This is all fascinating, especially since I too am thinking of using the hose etc from a weed burner as the gas supply for my first gas forge. I'll PM you my email address for a copy of that CAD PDF. Thanks in advance! Ditto here. Looking to make one for my maintenance shop for occasional use and I foresee having to "store" the prototype at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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