Blackegg Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 I started with a small propane bottle and only have the interior to go now. Will be doing two layers of Kaowool with a rigidizer and a coating of ITC-100. I'll start with fire brick floor and worry about something more flux proof when I advance to that level. theres no opening in the back yet. I want to wait till I have the interior finished so I can make it level with the floor for pass-throughs as well as a vent. I used the circular cut out from the tank as a "foot" also using the collar that was around the nozzle of the tank as a cradle. I'll be getting a larger size propane tank for the fuel. I'll also pick up a 0-30 lb regulator. It is naturally aspirated with a #57 jet. Let me know what you think, Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 ITC costs about $75.00 a pint. Plistix is $15.00 a pint of Metrikote is #20.00. Why spend $75.00? Have you checked out the Build a Gas Forge attachment at the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com? Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 The front is WAY too wide open. Fire brick makes a lousy forge floor it's too great a heat sink and too poor an insulator, it will cost you money and time burning propane to get and keep it hot. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 It is not too late for you to look through the the Forges 101 thread, but it will be soon...fortunately, it is never too late to look through the Burners 101 thread and make some simple changes to your burner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackegg Posted November 21, 2016 Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 Frosty, the opening is actually smaller than it looks in the pictures. By the time i get two layers of Kaowool in it and a coating of refractory, the opening will be approximately 6 inches in diameter. I will do some more research on floor materials. That's good to know about the fire brick. I've seen a lot of talk about the alumina kiln shelf, I'll look into this more. Thank you for the advice. Mikey, Ive done a lot of research on burners before building this one. I tried it out in another similar forge that has been finished and it definitely seemed to work well. It is identical to several burners I've seen for sale on various forge sites. At some point I'd like to make a second forge, one with two burners, out of a longer tank I have that is also smaller in diameter. I'll read some more in the burners 101 thread and see what I can learn there. What changes do you think would make it perform better? Ive seen your info about using something other than a drilled hole in the pipe, such as MIG tips etc.Maybe this would be something I could experiment with. I'm sure this being my first build will be a lot of trial and error with an ample amount of learning to boot! Thank you for the input, this is good information and appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 I subtracted 4" for the ceramic blanket, rigidizer and ITC-100 isn't a significant thickness so doesn't count. a 6" dia. opening is approx 28cu/in of heat vent. You want a balance of minimized heat loss and minimized back pressure so the burner is most efficient. Before kiln washing with ITC. plastering the liner with a castable refractory will lengthen it's lifespan significantly. If you lay ceramic blanket in the bottom with the edges thinned down to make a flat floor you can rigidize it and plaster it with about 1/2" of hard refractory for durability, good insulation and reasonably low heat sinkyness. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackegg Posted November 22, 2016 Author Share Posted November 22, 2016 Thanks Frosty, that's a good idea and I'll give it a try. If I build up the floor a little more it will make the opening smaller as well. I appreciate the advice. Thanks Wayne, I may just be looking into your supplies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 22, 2016 Share Posted November 22, 2016 If you put a "front porch" on it level with the floor it'll give you a place to support long stock and stand a thermal baffle like Mike describes. Being able to use longer stock means you aren't going to need tongs nearly as much which gives you MUCH better control of the work. Thermal baffles reflect the IR back into the chamber without restricting exhaust venting. I mount the front porch on telescoping arms to limit how much it's in the way when I don't need a long helper. The telescoping arms support the porch floor pieces so the porch can stat at the opening while the helper is extended. Until recently I just used hard fire brick for the porch but I"m lazy and keep thinking it'd be nice to not have to pack all the weight when I go portable. Light fire brick is too fragile though, I've been thinking of casting a porch from expanded steel reinforced KastOLite. The porch doesn't really need to be a refractory but it does need to withstand medium red heat temps, especially behind the baffles. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 All good points, Frosty, I hope you will cut and paste your thoughts into the Forges 101 thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Well, the first thing I see that needs changing on your burner is an increase in the diameter of the large opening of the reducer fitting. The probable side hole in the cross-pipe should be increased for 1/4-28 thread, and a Tweco MIG contact tip installed. Also, the mixing tube should be nine times its inside diameter; yours are way too long for best permormance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy98 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 On 11/21/2016 at 8:25 PM, Frosty said: heat sinkyness. I like it! Reminds me of the quote "In English, any word can be verbed" except in this case...adjectived? Adjectivized? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 One of the many things I like about "linear" burners, like this on, is that they can be updated so easily, rather than just replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyreb338 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Good afternoon my forge is made out of 1/4 plate with 2 layers of 1"blanket on the sides and top, 1 layer on the front and back with hard fire brick in the bottom, no insulation under the brick. I can forge on average 4 to 5 knives on a single 5gal bottle of gas with no tank freezing issues. the burner is nothing fancy just a piece of 1" s/s schedule 40 tubing I drilled a hole about 6" down and inserted a piece of 1/8 copper tubing, connected to my bottle and started heating and beating. hope this was helpfull, I attached a video not sure it went through. 20161125_154415.mp4 There's a pick of my homemade anvil as well, it's made of 1x6 t-1 steel, the edoes were cut to 1/2" bevel and welded. I frequently forge with a 8 lb sledge hammer and have beat out a bearing race with a 16lb sledge on it. no problems except I could lift my arm for a couple hours after. mabey this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 On 11/25/2016 at 8:45 AM, Andy98 said: I like it! Reminds me of the quote "In English, any word can be verbed" except in this case...adjectived? Adjectivized? No problem adjectivying anything. Inventing valid words is the best part of a living language. Simple rules make for a marvelously complex game that can be deciphered with a little brainworking. While that's not how I'd build a forge or burner it appears to be working just fine. Did you have questions? My short term memory is shot and I don't want to read the whole thread again. Oh yeah, I remember! I'd lose the fire brick floor. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackegg Posted December 5, 2016 Author Share Posted December 5, 2016 Wayne...can the Kast o' Lite be brushed on to the Kaowool inside on the sides and top or is it too heavy? From what I've been reading and seeing, I'm definitely going to be using it for a nice thick floor for the flux resistance but wanted to make sure it would be able to stick to the top and sides without falling off before hardening. My other option is to use the Kast o 'Lite for the floor and Satanite to cover the Kaowool on the sides and top. The whole interior will be coated with Metrikote from Wayne. Thank you, Blackegg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Mix the Kast-0-Lite to a mortar type consistency and trowel it on the ceramic blanket. You will have to cast in about 3 sections, letting each set so that it is stiff enough to stay in place. You will have to rotate the tank so that as each section is being cast it is on the bottom. Kast-0-Lite is a much better insulator than Satanite. Have you read the attachment on the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com? Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackegg Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Yes, I've been over your entire site. I'll be contacting you as soon as I'm back from training Wayne. Thanks for the advice and comments everybody. Blackegg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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