Shaggy Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 after recently been laid off at the machine shop by work that I've decided to take up an interest that's fascinating me since I was a child. Below I have 3-D renderings of the forge I designed this is based after the forge that my great uncle used. It's going to be made from a steel cyclinder that is 21" long, a 1/4" thick, and has a 10" diameter. It has an end that is blocked off with a rectangular hole of an undetermined size that will be able to be covered by a hinged door. The main reason I added this feature is so there isn't a jet of fire being blown out of the open end of the forge. I also equipped the forge with slots that I can put in refractive sheet bricks to be able to close the forge til it comes to working temperatures. I'll be lining it with 2" KAO wool using ITC-100 to make it a more efficient forge. It's going to be a dual burning forge with a valve that can limit it to a single if desired.On the bottom I'm going to make a flat surface using a refractive "clay" so the work piece isn't resting on the wool. I would like to hear your thoughts, opinions, things you would change, and things that you would do to make it better. If you like the design feel free to use the renderings I've attached to make your own. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Welcome aboard Jason, glad to have you. My first suggestion if you do some reading in the gas forge section of Iforge. My second is you take some classes before you go to this much trouble building a forge. You don't have the knowledge of experience to design a piece of equipment yet. You don't even know how to use one how do you expect to know what one needs to work properly? For instance two 1" layers of Kaowool is becoming a pretty standard back or insulating outer liner. Just kiln washing kaowool isn't going to make it strong enough nore chemically resistant enough to last long and ITC-100 is awfully expensive to be washing a short lived liner. There is no need for a 1/4" thick shell, stove pipe will easily support the forge and a couple hundred lbs. of work easily. You're making another mistake almost every one of us has made especially when we were first starting out. That's a WAY big forge to learn the craft in, shorten it to about 10" long and you'll have more than enough chamber. A through or passthrough hole in the far end is a good idea. Skip the refractory "clay" for the floor and buy a high alumina kiln shelf and just lay it in the bottom. It'll work better and not be a heat sink to waste fuel heating. Check Wayne Coe's web site for good directions and even plans for building a number of gas forges. He sells small quantities of high end refractories, kiln washes and such for reasonable. Spend some time reading about gas forges on Iforge, see how the guys are building them, see what works and what has problems. Have you decided on a burner? There's some more good reading in the gas burner section here. Sure you can just dive in and make the mistakes a lot of us have OR you can learn from OUR mistakes instead. up to you and we'll help anyway. We're like that, helpful if occasionally crabby as all git-out. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 I have had some experience using a forge before, my uncle is a knife maker in duschene Utah and he taught me how to move steel on an Anvil for 6 months when he lived down here, I was 8 turning 9 when he taught me and I made 3 knives under his supervision(pictured below) all were made from blanks cut from a saw blade from an abandoned saw mill in Utah. As far as it goes I want a forge I can make Damascus steel in. I am currently enrolled in a coal forge blacksmithing class 2 towns over from where I live, currently were making tools for the hardy holes and I'm going to ask the teacher if I can make a fuller device for home use. I'll take your advice and read through the gas forge section and make alterations to my current design to make it a smaller forge. As far as a burner goes I'm not even sure where to start. even with the things I've been reading I'm confused with how to calculate how many cf the burner has to be rated for to bring the forge to the proper working temperature, if you have any knowledge on that I'm more than willing to carry a conversation with you via email to gain a better understanding. My email is on my profile and the offer is open at any time for anyone who would like to bestow knowledge on me. -Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I have no doubt that you will do fine. Most of the tricky do-this-not-that-decisions become plain by reading to or three different books and articles; all of which are available for free on the web: Go to Wayne's site and read the article on ribbon burners and the other article on how he likes to construct a forge. Download a free pirated copy of Gas Burner for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns to find out all about why to do this and not that. Read about his mini forge build in Ron Riel's burner pages on the web. Take a good look at the oval mini forge built from half a car muffler on one of the current threads in this forum. Don't forget to take a good long look at a Frosty "T" burner before working your six off building one of mine. Reading all this will not only give you the latest thinking, and all the nitty-gritty particulars, but a fast view of what we all agree on about them. One last thing; if you opt to build the forge in my book, change out the single 3/4" centrally located burner for two 1/2" burners located into three equal spaces. That is the one change I would make if I had it to do it over again. But then, I've had sixteen years to grow wiser. I make no such recommendation if you choose to mount a different burner design, since I know exactly how my burners perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Frosty and Mikey gave you good advice. Spending time reading on here will go a long way towards helping you understand the "why" of certain designs. In that vein, the flap door on the pass-through seems like a good idea, but if you do that make sure you have some way to fasten it up and out of the way. If you just push stock through to open the door it will tend to catch the material when you try to pull it back out and that gets frustrating very quickly. The size thing gets us all at first it seems. I went way too big originally, now I use a freon size tank, and I'm planning on making an even smaller forge. I mainly forge knives, and for most I have done there just isn't any real advantage to going bigger for forging. When it comes time to quench though it is nice to have something long enough to bring the entire blade up to critical. I'm tinkering with an idea to combine two small forge bodies for that purpose, but only use one for forging. Another option is to use a removable insulating wall to change the volume of the forge. Those are some handsome knives you posted as well. In simplest terms the volume of an object is the length times width times height. If using a cylinder shaped chamber you have to find the area of the circle times the length. For "D" shapes you have to modify the calculations a bit more, but still not too tough. The rule of thumb you'll see here is one 3/4 inch inside diameter naturally aspirated burner per 350 cubic inches of forge chamber. It's probably pretty close for blown burners as well, but someone may have better info on that than I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Thanks for the compliment on my knives but when you get a close look at them you can tell there are flaws. On the bottom one the fuller isn't even with the mirror on the other side. I'm actually working right now on the current design tweaking the dimensions of it to make it a smaller forge with only a single burner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I haven't made a knife yet that I'm 100% happy with, but I can tell you that as makers we see far more of the flaws than the general public does. Still, if we don't chase perfection we'll never catch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 I know with the knives I've made I wasn't able to make them on the first try. The top knife took me 6 billet before I got the last one right. They were either too weighty to the front end, didn't have a appealing profile, or had an issue in the quench (cracking, warping, or not heated to the right temperature to harden the metal) I'm clinically diagnosed as OCD and I'm really picky on how things I make are supposed to look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Well, if one has to have a short coming, there are far worse than OCD; like common old fashion laziness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 As an update, I've shelved the plans for the forge at the moment because I was given a portable farriers forge. It's dimensions are as follows, 12"x 6"x 6" and has no lining in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 Many use an insulating board liners but have fire brick floors. I'd get away from fire brick anywhere in it if possible. Post a couple pics so we can make wild unrealistic suggestions. Being silly, a free forge is PROBABLE a good deal, check into factory liner kits before you start planning on doing it yourself. I was talking to one of our guys today at the state fair about finally relining his farrier forge and we may go with a do it ourself liner. Maybe not. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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