So ya I wanna build a forge...but of course got a ? LEGS

[Mutz Farm]

Ok guys Ive done a lot of researched. Sucks the pictures dont always come in as I am a very visual learner. 

Anyways

I can see me building a forge something along the lines of a 24" X 36" Forge.

I can see the top being 3/16 to 1/4

I see at least a 2" lip around the edge. Maybe a 3" out of angle iron. 

I visualize the fire pot as 10" X 12" outa 3/8" hopefully 1/2" X 4" deep

I can see the ash and air being at least 2" diameter or 2" square

Blah, Blah, Blah

One thing I am not finding is what are people using for legs? I'm thinking like 2" X 2" X 1/8" angle, but wonder if I should use 3/16"

There is a couple awesome or what I think is awesome builds I would like to try to make work for me. Probably wont be near the craftsmanship, but again I dont see nothing bout the legs. I hate to build this awesome top on flimsy legs. I can find table top heights and all sort of suggestions, but nothing much on material usage for the legs.

 

I like 01tundra build in the 5th post here. Couldnt find the build post if there was one on this. Please direct me if there is one.

I like this on also by Thanaton23, but dont see nothing on legs.

Open to all help and suggestions on the leg part as I may go tomorrow and start collecting materials.

THANX in advance.

 

[DSW]

3/16" to 1/4" for the top will be heavy, especially with the angle iron sides. My forge is roughly your size and it's heavy enough with only 14 ga for the table and 1/8" for the 3" sides before I even added the legs. I will admit that raking out a large fire to put it out in a hurry did oilcan the 14 ga some, but it really didn't effect how the forge worked.

 

I understand what you are going thru with the legs. Mine sat on 2 steel folding saw horses for the longest time because I wanted something I could colapse for storage.

2" angle will work fine. So will 1" pipe or larger. Pipe, you can weld the pipe flanges to the top and then screw in the legs if you want them easily removable. I've also seen "pockets" made that you slide the angle iron legs in so they are removable as well. If you go with small diameter pipe, say 1" or thin angle iron (1/8", you probably will want some sort of bracing at least half way down to keep the legs from buckling or twisting when you try and move it.

Here's a few picts of my forge. I eventually went all out and forged the legs that I have now out of 1" solid and they slide into tube sockets bolted to the table.

 

 

[Glenn]

May I suggest that you build the table top and put it on cinder blocks  or other suitable material to test out the height that is comfortable for you. You can then build the legs to that height.

If you want a stationary forge, build it. If you want a portable forge, or one that takes up less space for storage, then the fun begins. You can build like DSW suggests but with the sides supports so they are hinged to fold in to match the half length of the long back side of the forge. Wheels are always a consideration for ease of movement.

Once you get started designing YOUR forge, it is only limited by YOUR imagination. Modular designs are fun. Sometimes they look like origami gone wild while folding down to a small package.
 

[DSW]

Actually Glen that was the nice thing about the steel folding saw horses I used, They had adjustable legs so you could change the height up and down some. I meant to add this pict  earlier.

 

[Mutz Farm]

11 hours ago, DSW said:

 

Those are awesome legs. I have seen your pics before in my research.

11 hours ago, Glenn said:

 Wheels are always a consideration for ease of movement.

I think the wheels are going to be a must!!

I'm thinking something similar to this ............ Sorry for stealing pic.

[arkie]

Wheels are a must.  BIG wheels are even better...makes moving it around much easier.  I found a picture somewhere that a guy had used a pair of old steel wheelbarrow wheels on his forge...looked kool.  Make a drop-down handle of some design on the other end and you can move it with ease.  No need then for smaller wheels on the other two legs.

I've always liked DSW's forge.  Really nice work there.

 

[Frosty]

That's WAY too heavy for the table it's going to be a mother bear to move and you will want to move it even if you have a permanent space in a shop to do hot work. Designing YOUR work space is very personal and it changes. Another thing, 1/4" plate will oil can with the heat and isn't going to return without serious persuasion, not that your forge table needs to be flat but it is nice if it doesn't pop on you while you're working. 14ga will make a noise and rattle the coals on it when it oil cans, 1/4" plate on the other hand might just toss burning coals off it along with tools, work, etc.

I used 14 ga. on my TOO large coal forge and stiffened the table with 1" angle iron both edges stitch welded every 6" or so making a V to stiffen the deck. It can move but the added structure makes it come home nicely and without violent popping.

The legs are 2" sq. tubing that socket into 2 1/4" sq tubing sockets welded to the edge frame. It has spreaders on the legs that make a handy shelf with a piece of plywood laid on them, they bolt to angle iron flanges. I found I didn't need to angle brace the legs, the spreader stiffened it up nicely so there's no twist or wobble even socketed and screwed together. The bolts on the spreaders aren't tight they just keep them from being knocked off the legs.

My tuyere is made from semi scale exhaust tubing. If you have a wire welder it becomes a silly easy build. The vertical 3" exhaust tube has a light plate bolt flange welded to it. The opening was drilled with a 3" hole saw. (I love hole saws and my drill press, you'll see why) About 4" down I drilled a 2" hole in the vertical pipe using a hole saw. I welded the 6"(?) horizontal air supply pipe into it's hole. That's it, the entire tuyere took maybe 30 minutes to make. Attaching it to the forge table was as simple as drilling a 3" dia hole where I wanted the "duck's nest" and a couple 1/4" bolt holes to attach the flange. I don't care if it's an airtight connection, I have an electric blower so it's ALWAYS choked way down, all a little leakage around the tuyere bolt flange does is blow cool air across the bottom of the forge table.

The ash dump is another example of the superiority of the positive side of laziness. The vertical section of the tuyere is 3" semi exhaust pipe right? I just bought a 3" exhaust flap cap and welded a little extension to the counter weight to make it easy to reach with whatever is in my hand and dump the ash. It's off the shelf, designed to take way more heat than it will on the tuyere and it mounts with a lousy 6" crescent wrench. My pocket wrench, I carry it like my pocket knife. If for some reason coal gasses accumulate in the tuyere and ignite if it's a large detonation it just opens the ash dump and blows it into the ash bucket. Works a treat, a simple effective safety relief and is easy, REALLY EASY. I like really easy effective.

And that's my coal forge. I just don't burn coal, I don't know where the good seam is and getting it shipped in is EXPENSIVE so I burn propane when I'm in town.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mutz Farm]

Thanx for the replies folks.

Well went to the scrap yard......... Looks like my forge will be larger than I planned as I found a piece of 5/16 plate that measures 34 7/8 X 48 3/4. It was like I was just drawn to it. Figure the good Lord put it there for me to find so I snatched it up. Its almost cut perfect. The 34 7/8 side is same both ends and the 48 3/4 is only bout 3/16 different on the other end. Also got some 2" X 3" X 3/16" for the lip around the top. Dang thing is only 10' long, but I got some  3 X 3 pieces I'll put on one end. I also got 2" X 2" X 3/16" angle for legs. That was all I got for today. Figure I can get the frame and table top stitch welded on the frame.

 

O and I did go outside and look in my scrap pile I may have the materials to build the tuyere, but not the fire pot..........or at least I aint found any yet. 

Something else I also got something that looks like the bottom adjustments to the legs on a scaffold. Gonna make me a nice adjustable height mig welding table. I will try to get some pictures soon.

 

Meanwhile explain this to me.........Again sorry for stealing pic.

Does it act as like an umbrella for the clinker material?

[DSW]

11 minutes ago, Mutz Farm said:

Thanx for the replies folks.

Well went to the scrap yard......... Looks like my forge will be larger than I planned as I found a piece of 5/16 plate that measures 34 7/8 X 48 3/4. It was like I was just drawn to it. Figure the good Lord put it there for me to find so I snatched it up. Its almost cut perfect. The 34 7/8 side is same both ends and the 48 3/4 is only bout 3/16 different on the other end. Also got some 2" X 3" X 3/16" for the lip around the top. Dang thing is only 10' long, but I got some  3 X 3 pieces I'll put on one end. I also got 2" X 2" X 3/16" angle for legs. That was all I got for today. Figure I can get the frame and table top stitch welded on the frame.

My math puts that plate at close to 150 lb's and we haven't added the firepot, angle iron sides, legs etc yet. I hope you have a forklift handy to move the "Beast". Also you may quickly find a table that big to be a pain to work on, especially with smaller stock. If it was me, I'd cut that table size in half at a minimum.

Honestly if I had that piece of plate, I'd use it to make a nice hot work table. I just bought a chunk of 1/4" for a job and the 30" x 36" left over piece is now my hot work layout table. This way I can chalk out patterns and designs and lay out hot work straight from the forge on it to check dimensions. I'd save the plate and look for something thinner like 14 ga myself.

[Frosty]

You're getting into a little too much of a rush. Take it from me it's a good way to paint yourself into a corner. Take your time things come out better. Honest. If I hadn't gotten in a rush I wouldn't have built that great big coal forge, I don't use coal I don't need even the itty bitty 12v farrier's coal forge I got in a package deal. There are a LOT better things to do with that piece of plate.

The good Lord probably IS testing you.

An air grate like the pipe cap provides clear space around it to allow clinker to be raked off the air holes. The resulting clinker forms an easily raked donut shape for removal.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mutz Farm]

4 hours ago, DSW said:

My math puts that plate at close to 150 lb's and we haven't added the firepot, angle iron sides, legs etc yet. I hope you have a forklift handy to move the "Beast". Also you may quickly find a table that big to be a pain to work on, especially with smaller stock. If it was me, I'd cut that table size in half at a minimum.

Honestly if I had that piece of plate, I'd use it to make a nice hot work table. I just bought a chunk of 1/4" for a job and the 30" x 36" left over piece is now my hot work layout table. This way I can chalk out patterns and designs and lay out hot work straight from the forge on it to check dimensions. I'd save the plate and look for something thinner like 14 ga myself.

Yup bout 148lbs. Already told wife gonna need to put the pallet forks on the tractor to move it around.

What do you mean when you mention hot work table?

I dunno if I'm gonna go thinner.

4 hours ago, Frosty said:

You're getting into a little too much of a rush. Take it from me it's a good way to paint yourself into a corner. Take your time things come out better. Honest. If I hadn't gotten in a rush I wouldn't have built that great big coal forge, I don't use coal I don't need even the itty bitty 12v farrier's coal forge I got in a package deal. There are a LOT better things to do with that piece of plate.

The good Lord probably IS testing you.

An air grate like the pipe cap provides clear space around it to allow clinker to be raked off the air holes. The resulting clinker forms an easily raked donut shape for removal.

Frosty The Lucky.

I always keep the wagon in front of the horse and you are right bout slowing down and things come out better when you take your time. Just sounds like all this oil canning is happening with the thin stuff.

I believe the good Lord is always seeing if I am gonna go in that door or wait for the window to open.

 

So whats better that air pipe dome or a clinker breaker?

[DSW]

8 minutes ago, Mutz Farm said:

What do you mean when you mention hot work table?

Here's the best example I have picts of at the moment. There from Andrew Molino's shop at the PABA meeting in Oct of 2014. One of the PABA members shot these as I was busy striking for Andrew at the time. In the 1st pict you can see Andrew laying a still red hot piece down on top of the chalk outline he drew on the steel table. Pict 2 shows some of the parts in position cooling awaiting the other parts to be forged to match. I've done this in the past to get arches on my forge base to match, having drawn out the original idea on the steel table, then bending and checking until the piece matched the outline, before starting a 2nd one to match.

 

The table doesn't have to be as heavy as a typical "welding" table. It just needs to be able to support the weight and be heat proof, You really aren't going to beat on it or anything like that. Of course a nice good sized steel welding table could also work for this purpose. If I get time tomorrow I'll try and get picts of the plate and legs of the one I just built,

 

 

[Frosty]

I can't say which air grate is better, my experience with coal is really limited and most of that to a Duck's Nest. I've never used a clinker breaker or a pipe cap type.

Thinner stock is more susceptible to differential heating if you think of it as a ratio of thickness to area I think you'll get a handle of the likelyhood of a particular piece of plate oil canning. A typical forge table is more likely to oil can in use but it goes right away when it cools. A thicker table, plate even is less likely to oil can but heating it from the center is exactly the kind of differential heating that will do the deed. The center of the plate warms and expands, it will move. The problem with plate oil canning being thicker stock moving like that actually forges it to a degree. The center expanding will upset itself before the stresses are relieved by the table top warping. As it cools it can't draw itself thinner so the plate stays warped.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Donniev]

Personally used 1/8" steel plate for table top and 3/4" schedule 40 pipe for the legs, because it was available to me free through my works scrap bin. I say use what you have, I see no problem with using angle iron for the legs- I agree with everyone else saying 1/4" is too thick for table top, your table has to hold steel while it's in the fire, not withstand a nuclear blast. 

Also, go with 3 legs, as it won't wobble. My table is on 3 legs and is 30*24", it does just fine on 3 legs. Lastly, if craftsmanship means a lot to you then by all means do what you feel you want/need to for it to look great, but at the same time don't lose sight of the fact that it's purpose is to heat metal, nothing else. Personally I'm more focused on what my forged work looks like than what my forge looks like, but to each his own brother

[Mark Ling]

Mutz Farm- After looking at your profile I noticed that you are also in Texas. Where in Texas are you?

                                                                                                                      Littleblacksmith

[Mutz Farm]

37 minutes ago, littleblacksmith said:

Mutz Farm- After looking at your profile I noticed that you are also in Texas. Where in Texas are you?

                                                                                                                      Littleblacksmith

 Home of the Alamo

[Mutz Farm]

 

Well after a few comments on here I'm thinking my plate maybe slightly to large....... I mentioned to my wife. She said dont you dare cut it in half or buy another. I was like WOMAN my castle back off (in my head of course). She said you will complain on how the table should have been bigger.... So I thought bout it. You know she aint real smart, but she knows her husband all to well. 

 

Now current thoughts........ Plate is approx 34" X 48" X 5/16". From what I am currently getting in replies I can make to forges out of this. Not to mention the plate is THICK. Also like a little extra work space or as explained above a hot table.

What if I use the plate and keep it one piece, but make the forge 24" X 34" with a hot table / work table 24" X 34" on the other half? I can just use C clamps to hold down the piece between the work table and the forge in case I need more room one way or the other......... I think I like this idea more and more that I think bout it.

[Mutz Farm]

What bout the ash dump and air inlet? I have some 4 1/2" pipe laying here I was gonna use, but got to thinking maybe that is just to big.

[Mutz Farm]

42 minutes ago, Mutz Farm said:

What bout the ash dump and air inlet? I have some 4 1/2" pipe laying here I was gonna use, but got to thinking maybe that is just to big.

Starting to think this is to big.

[Mutz Farm]

Im a bit bit farther along than this, but every time I try it rains. Believe me Im not complaining about the rain thou as we definitely need it.

I got the legs on and braced. Still need to do fire pot. Trying to figure out the air supply and size pipe to deliver the air.

On the 2nd picture I drew out a batarang chinese star type deal I was gonna make for my son. At that time my wife walked up and said what is that? I explained and she said I dont think so.

[Frosty]

3 hours ago, Mutz Farm said:

What bout the ash dump and air inlet? I have some 4 1/2" pipe laying here I was gonna use, but got to thinking maybe that is just to big.

Below is a drawing of the tuyere I made for my coal forge. The vertical is 3" exhaust tubing, the horizontal is 2". Instead of making what I drew for the ash dump I clamped an exhaust flap cap on with an extension on the counter weight to make it easy to reach under the forge with whatever is in my hand. The attachment, not shown, is a simple bolt flange welded to the top.

The tool list is a drill press and hole saws, drill bits and a GMAW wire feed welder. It's simple, easy and effective. If you don't have the tools any muffler shop should be willing to fab one for you for a few bucks.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Mutz Farm]

I guess what I am getting at is if I made the air flow and ash dump (tuyere) out of the 4 1/2" pipe would it be to big?

I suppose it depends on the fan also?

What kind of fan would I need with this 4 1/2" pipe?

Could I get away with this?

http://ittybittyurl.com/2EMu

Or would I need to step up to this?

http://ittybittyurl.com/2EMv

 

 

[Mutz Farm]

Could get something like this and maybe blow the fire outa the pot. Not bad pric thou.

http://ittybittyurl.com/2EMC

Guess I should put thes in the fan section

 

[Frosty]

My reply got lost by IPS . . . AGAIN! The size of the pipe in the tuyere isn't that important so long as it can carry enough volume without too much velocity. You want to avoid high velocity blast it tends to blow through the fire without burning so your work has raw oxy on it at heat and the unconsumed air takes heat with it. You get more scale and less heat with too fast a blast. The size of your air grate is going to determine the size of the base of your fire. Making the air grate smaller than the vertical part of the tuyere has a couple good effects. First it acts as a plenum so there is eve air flow through the whole grate. The other is the cool air blowing against the bottom of the fire pot or table in a Ducks Nest, this helps keep the grate and fire pot from burning so quickly and in the process preheats the air to the fire. Neither of these are significant enoug hto design for but they aren't bad things.

You can make plenty of air even for my too large forge with a blower out of a auto heater. A lot of guys here use bathroom exhaust fans and such but I don't have any experience with them. Heck I rarely use coal at all. I have a couple mattress, rubber raft, etc. inflaters that work a treat they come in both 12v and 120v and all produce more air than a person is likely to need for normal forging. Well, more fire than I need anyway.

Frosty The Lucky.

[arkie]

Mutz, I've been using the $15 fart fan from HD for over three years now.  No complaints.  Air blows through 2" black pipe, controlled by a sliding air gate (blast gate, some call it).  I usually run it about 25% open for most stuff.  One inch or over stock, I open it to 50-100 %.  You can get larger CFM output with those type fans and the main attraction for me is that they are CHEAP compared to some other fans.  With larger pipe you are probably going to need a larger output fan.  Like Frosty said, you need volume, not velocity.