Are all welding rods the same?

[Glenn]

Are all welding rods the same?

For the sake of discussion, let us take 6013 rod. If you pruchase it from Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, Wal-mart, Lowes, Home Depot, or Harbor Freight are you getting the same rod or just a rod that meets the minimum specs for the 6013 label.

The real question is, do they act different when each is run on the same welder, at the same settings, on the same metal? Could the weldor tell the difference and pick out which brand was which?

[Thomas Dean]

Well, yes and no, yes spec wise, no quality/ease of use. Yes, you can definitely tell the difference in the different brands. For instance, my personnal preference for a low-hydrogen rod (7018) is the Lincoln Excalabor in the 3/32 or 1/8 size. BUT if I need to burn a 5/32 or 3/16 I prefere the Atom Arc. The AA run smoother than the lincoln excalaber, IMO. Time and space won't allow me to list all of the preferences in the different brands and types of rods. YMMV, and for the most part, it is a user preference. They must meet the min. spec. requirements set forth by the AWS.

[Hillbillysmith]

TD is correct. No matter the manufacturer, the rods that have AWS specifications such as; E6010, 6011, 6013, 7014, 7018, 7024, etc etc, are produced to the minimum specs allowed by AWS. But it is the manufacturer that also decides what other chemicals to put into the fluxes such as; ammount of iron powder, arc stabilizers, cellulose bases, etc. However, in debate of what TD has stated, they DO run/act differently with the same machine, amperage, material thickness/type, current, electrode size, temp of base material, etc. I can contest to this b/c I weld every day with Lincoln's E6010 5P and E6010 5P+ rods. Both 1/8 inch rod. The 5P rod runs a much forceful and wilder arc than the 5P+ b/c of the amount/type of arc stabilizers in them. The 5P+ has more, therefore the arc isn't as wild. It especially holds true with low hydrogen rods (E7018, E8018, etc.) b/c of the need to be used in such a proficient manner in industry to pass x-ray testing. I know that there are people here that have more knowledge of welding than I, but i do to a school for this and have done extensive studies on subjects such as this.

[irnsrgn]

I used mostly hobart electrodes, I wouldn't give a nickel for a train car load of lincoln electrodes. On jobs where I was welding and there were other welders working, they would see the quality and appearance of my welding and ask to use some of my rod. superintendents were not happy when the help requested them to get some of the rod I was using. Its all a matter of personal preference and user friendlyness. I did use some atom arc and liked it. Lincoln did buy out one of the other mfg's a few years ago and closed the plant and sold off the equip within a week as I recall.

The other determining factor is the machine used, the DC ones with dual controls, seperate voltage and Amps dials are more versatile as you can use high amperage and low open circuit voltage or low amperage and high open circuit voltage to obtain the same heat, but with completely different arc characteristics.

I am not going to part with my 1950 Lincoln SA200 welder tho.

[jjh]

I use the cheapest I can get, but love Fincord M s they just give a beautiful weld I've heard 'em called idiot sticks as even an idiot can weld with 'em!

[aametalmaster]

I had a preference years ago for rods but after working 30 years in different shops for the cheapest xxxxxxxx on earth you learn to run what they buy. So anymore i can run them all. Now its my turn to buy the rods for my shop. Ebay is my number 1 shopping place. The same with mig wire. Anything that is .030 S-7 i buy, i don't care where its made i can use it in my machine...Bob

[clw1985]

well, from my experience every one is completely correct with the fact that if you buy a 6913 or any other rod from any manufacturer has to meet the specs to be that rod, some rods though are touchy....if ur a newbie welder and ur like hey that xxxx is rusty but this 7018 isnt doin the job lets use a 6010....you'l find out real quick not all of 'em are the same, if u use 7018's if ur welding on anything that is going to be pushing 70 thousand lbs or im picky in my case any load put em in a rod oven...not a fridge with bulb that doesnt work ill probably catch xxxx for it but its the truth use a 7024 if u dont want to purchase a rod oven or worry about it. 7018 absorb hydrogen and it being a low hydrogen rod it can and will cause cracks in stressed welds if contaminated.

[Travis Covington]

all rods are required to meet standards but like everyone said each manufacturers rod act differently. You can even see a big difference in labels from the same maker, such as Lincoln. Cheep lincoln rods are a waste usually, excaliber burn great usually.
Just my Idea
Travis

[Alphonse]

I just posted a help full video where I burn test some E6011/6012/6013 rods to show the differences...see it at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0I6XylXwis

[Glenn]

im picky in my case any load put em in a rod oven...not a fridge with bulb that doesnt work ill probably catch xxxx for it but its the truth

If you look at Lincoln's or Hobart's specs for a welding rod hot box or rod over for rod storage, you will find they suggest a constant temperature that would suit a oven, NOT A REFRIGERATOR. Refrigerators are for keeping things cold.And DO NOT put your sandwich in the rod oven to warm it up lunch. Great idea but it introduced moisture which is what your trying to avoid by using the rod oven in the first place.

[Thomas Dean]

Glenn, you CAN use an old fridge for storing welding rods but NOT any low hydrogen rods, such as E7018 as they do need to be kept at 250F for proper storage. (This is what "clw1985" is refering to, not a cold fridge.)The 60xx series rods can be kept in the fridge with a 100-150w bulb on. This keeps the rods dry enough that they will keep over extended periods of time. Even a lot of SS rods are fine in a fridge. Do understand that this is a non-working fridge that has had a light bulb placed inside for the drying effect. They are cheap, and air tight which is what you want for rod storage. You can by a 'dry box' for keeping rods in but why spend the extra $ when the fridge does the exact same thing. You will need a rod oven for low hydrogen rod storage that has heating elements and a thermostat. Also for reconditioning low hydrogen rods you need a seperate rod oven, bake rods at 500F for 24hrs then they can be place back into the 250F oven. When you are dealing with code inspectors and the like you BETTER have good rod ovens and they are to be calibrated EVERY year. Proper rod storage is a BIG deal and they are serious about it.

[Glenn]

Thomas,
Thank you for the correction.

[clinton]

Good analogy on the 5p rod- I would like to add that 5p rod is designed to run down hill- it is all position but down hill is what it does best. 5p+ has iron powder added and that makes it run smoother- which means it is your best choice for uphill welding- and no pipe welder out there would ever consider using anything but Lincoln electrodes.

[clinton]

When it comes to inner-shield wire I know the Lincoln NR 211 electrode runs much better than the other brands-Rancor is one that is widely available out here. We use .035 diameter wire a lot and I know for a fact that the Lincoln wire is more user friendly than anything else out there- less splatter, more stable arc, Lincoln wrote the book on electrodes.
I have also had good luck with ESAB products, their stick electrodes and stainless wire are top notch.
I have not been impressed with Hobart electrodes- unstable arc, lots of splatter, sticking electrodes, porosity (7018) Putting a cover pass on sch 40 pipe= nightmare. And this rod was brand new out of the box less than an hour. I will not waste anymore of my money on hobart products. period.

[Fosterob]

I have done a lot of structural work in the past and use ESAB 7018 for the odd time when core8 or 7100 ultra won't work. This talk of rod ovens reminds me that if you buy 7018 or any other lo-hy rod make SURE it is in a hermetically sealed can. NOT the cardboard box on the shelf wrapped in plastic. Those rods have absorbed moisture and are garbage. I buy the ESAB in 10 lb HSC cans and on an inspected job the best thing you can do is open a new can for the inspector. I think you have something like 9 hours to use it before it needs to go in an oven. I do not need to own a rod oven by doing inspected work this way. As long as the insulated box (old fridge) is above the boiling point of water there is no problem for the lo-hy rods.
Rob

[clinton]

Not all lo- hydrogen rods are equal when it comes to storage and code requirements, and not all areas are equal when it comes to code requirements. Yes there is D1.1 AWS Structural Welding Code- it pretty much sets the standard, but some cities and states do have their own codes that will supersede D1.1 , ASME SECTION IX, & API 1104.
I was talking with a guy from New York about welder qualification and he told me that out there they have to go through the Department of Transportation to certify welders. Also I know that Los Angeles has their own codes that they go by- so when it comes to storing electrodes- what is good here may not be good elsewhere. If you were welding in a nuclear power plant you would probably not be taking more than 1 or 2 rods at a time- from a rod oven over 450 degrees. It all depends on where you are and what you are doing
But yes small air tight cans are good where ever you are

[Old N Rusty]

At what position are you using E-6013? That electrode is for flat only. "Jet weld" we used to call it. I built a nuke, ( with a little help) and am satisfied with the performance of the Atom Arc rods we were supplied. As for a welding machine, "GO BLUE" or go home. Miller Equipment makes the weld.

[Mainely,Bob]

Two things that nobody has gotten into in depth so far is 1-experience level of the welder and type of machine (as well as experience with the rod being used) and 2-the level of prep on the base material. these two things are huge factors in any weld job.
Geography is also a factor.What works for Thom powers out in NM may not be the best for me working a ship in drydock in Portland Harbor.
Many small factors at work add up quickly.

I used to win bets with some of the new hires that I could run a better weld (60 series rod) with no hands than they could using any technique they wanted.(flat position welding)
I`d take a 6010 5p+ and bend it into an arc then strike the arc,let it stabilize and then lay the stinger down on the bench and place my helmet on it to keep it pressed down. then I`d walk around behind them and tap them on the shoulder and ask them how I was doing. I never lost one of those bets because I knew which rod to grab out of the oven (rather than out of the rack hung from the machine),knew which machine to use (motor/generator for consistent smooth arc) and had practiced the trick and knew the settings needed to make the process automatic.

Asking if there is a difference between rods is like asking a group of hunters if there`s a difference between knives.
They`re all made out of steel but the subtle differences in alloy,size,and most of all end user make each outstanding for it`s particular owner and purpose.

When asked what I want for rods I usually ask for Hobart or Esab as they are usually readily available and extremely consistent and forgiving in operation.
On tough oddball jobs where cost was not a factor Cronatron had some of the best rods I ever ran. They price them like they`re all made out of gold though.

[clinton]

At what position are you using E-6013? That electrode is for flat only. "Jet weld" we used to call it. I built a nuke, ( with a little help) and am satisfied with the performance of the Atom Arc rods we were supplied. As for a welding machine, "GO BLUE" or go home. Miller Equipment makes the weld.

6013 is an all position electrode- the third number indicates position- either a 1 for all position or 2 for flat or horizontal only

[Old N Rusty]

I KNEW THAT!.. once... i did .. its just too many years with M.I.G. made me forget. Those numbers on the welding rod do have a meaning. and it is a wise welder that knows what he is welding with.