th41004 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Hi all. I have been reading this forum for a few weeks, what a wealth of information. I am a tinkerer blacksmith and have been using a coal fired forge that I made. It does well, but I have trouble finding coal and I do not like the fumes. I am attempting to build a forge from a 20# propane tank. I will be insulating with 2'' inswool and coating with 1/4 - 1/2'' refractory. I am stuck on deciding on a burner. I would not mind building one or buying a quality built burner. I am having trouble finding a decent burner. There is one for sale on ebay from Tacoma that looks decent. What do you all suggest for this set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Welcome aboard Th, glad to have you. You've seen my illustrated plans for the T burner posted here, yes? Plans for a Modified Sidearm are available online shoot us a link to what you find and we'll let you know if that's a workable version. Mike Porter is posting here as well and if you have decent shop skills I don't think there's a better home build burner around, anywhere. Mike designs Formula 1 hot rod burners and the "T" burner I came up with as a pickup truck. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Thanks Frosty! Yes I have been going over the T burner design. Looks pretty straight forward. Should the burner nozzle be at a tangent or 90 degrees from the work surface? I noticed in the design it was straight down. Being I will have a circular forge, what would work better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Yes, the burners in my forge are aimed perpendicular to the floor but they're rectangular chambers so tangential alignment doesn't make a smooth vortex. Yes, I'd align the burners tangentially to the chamber across the top if the chamber isn't too large. This has the burner laying almost horizontal so your hoses are NOT above forge heat, the hose or whatever you use for the fuel line can be aimed straight down over the edge of the stand. This minimizes the trip hazard making it a much safer appliance. Another feature of the burner laying flat is it isn't such a good chimney when you shut it down it won't draw nearly as much heat up through it. Were you going to mount it vertically like mine you'd really want to use copper tubing as the final fuel supply line. I don't care how hot my burners get if they're not running, there's nothing to burn or be damaged by the heat. A rubber hose on the other hand? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Great tips! I have been scouring information from this forum all evening. Sounds like you are the burner SME. With my plans, do you suggest 1" pipe rather than 3/4"? Also do you think one burner will suffice? I seldom forge weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 If you go to the Net and download a free copy of the book Gas Burners for Forges, Furnaces, & Kilns you will find complete and detailed plans of a forge built from a twenty pound (five gallon) propane cylinder, with plenty of drawings. You will also find retailed instructions for all the bells and whistles to go with such a forge. As to what burner to go with it; any of the designs Frosty mentioned will work fine; one of those designs is featured in the book, You also asked about burner size and number. Most people prefer a single 3/4" burner in this size forge. Some go for two 1/2" burners; but nobody goes for a 1" burner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 Okay. After further research, I was beginning to think 2 3/4" may be the way to go.Glad you cleared that up. I have heard good things about the book and will definitely look it up. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 Go to the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com and study the two attachments there. You will see how I like to build a gas forge from a 20# Propane bottle. Let me know if I can help you. What part of Kentucky are you in? You might be close enough to me to come visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 22, 2016 Author Share Posted May 22, 2016 11 hours ago, WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.c said: Go to the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com and study the two attachments there. You will see how I like to build a gas forge from a 20# Propane bottle. Let me know if I can help you. What part of Kentucky are you in? You might be close enough to me to come visit. I will do that. I live in rural Northern Ky. north of Lex. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Share Posted May 26, 2016 Okay. I finished cutting my tank. I picked up some inswool and Resco AA-22A (Refractory) from a local source. I lined it with ~4" of insulation and 1/4 - 1/2 refrac. I am working on the burner at the moment. Like others, I had trouble finding the 1" - 3/4" T and purchased a 1" T . I bought a bushing to reduce to 3/4 from the 1". I purchased a ss nozzle from ebay that fits nicely on the 3/4 pipe. Do I need to cut the threads of the end and clean up before attaching the nozzle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted May 26, 2016 Share Posted May 26, 2016 The Resco refractory looks to be a good product, and they have an even higher alumina version (90%) that is likely to be even more resistant to flux damage. The white color of the material will likely help as well with the thermal efficiency of the liner. I'll let Frosty respond to the proposed modification to the burner, but I do recall him mentioning on another thread that he does not recommend using a bushing as the gas/air flow patterns at that portion of the assembly are fairly critical and the bushing makes a change in the geometry of the unit. Any decent plumbing supply shop should be able to set you up with a reducing TEE, and they are cheap. I would recommend following the design, as listed, and see how it works for you before you make modifications. My experience with flares is that they are less necessary for burners that are used inside forges (as opposed to those in free air), but the stainless end will be a bit less likely to break down from the heat (and can be replaced if it does). Without knowing the details of the nozzle configuration it will be difficult to predict how it affects the burner outlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 26, 2016 Author Share Posted May 26, 2016 22 minutes ago, latticino said: The Resco refractory looks to be a good product, and they have an even higher alumina version (90%) that is likely to be even more resistant to flux damage. The white color of the material will likely help as well with the thermal efficiency of the liner. I'll let Frosty respond to the proposed modification to the burner, but I do recall him mentioning on another thread that he does not recommend using a bushing as the gas/air flow patterns at that portion of the assembly are fairly critical and the bushing makes a change in the geometry of the unit. Any decent plumbing supply shop should be able to set you up with a reducing TEE, and they are cheap. I would recommend following the design, as listed, and see how it works for you before you make modifications. My experience with flares is that they are less necessary for burners that are used inside forges (as opposed to those in free air), but the stainless end will be a bit less likely to break down from the heat (and can be replaced if it does). Without knowing the details of the nozzle configuration it will be difficult to predict how it affects the burner outlet. I was unable to find the tees anywhere in town I ordered some from ebay. Hope they arrive soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironhorse07 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I asked about using a 1" T with a reducer bushing in another thread because I have them laying around. The concern was turbulence at the transition and that was confirmed by the burner experts that the transition would not be smooth enough and disrupt the induction of the burner. I found 1 at a plumbing supply store and Ace Hardware here has them too. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 30, 2016 Author Share Posted May 30, 2016 Finished insulation and refractory. Happy with it so far. Still waiting on the correct T for the burner. I think I have everything else. Thanks for all suggestions and comments. Again awesome wealth of experience in this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Pics of my completed forge. Still tuning but it is easily getting 1/2 stock to forging temps pretty quickly at 7 psi. The burner is chattering and I have tried different length .35 tips. There is a slight breeze which may be the problem, I am not sure. Volume is ~135 in3. Changing tip length does not help nor hurt the chattering which makes me think the wind is the culprit. I turned the T vertical because the wind, it seemed to help. I have the back opening blocked with a brick all except for the top 1/2". I used another brick to block half the front opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 T burners are susceptible to breezes, I have a wind screen I can set on mine. I can't tell from the pic, how deep is your burner set? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have the nozzle just up inside the refractory. Should be 3.5-4". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 Okay, we're operating on different scales and terminology. "just up inside" implies you mean from the forge chamber. I'd hardly call: 3.5-4" Just, that's quite a way from the chamber. I put mine "just" inside the refractory shell as measured from the shell. The propane tank is your forge's shell. That puts my burner nozzle around 2"+/- from the chamber, far enough away it doesn't get burned up. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Okay. The ss nozzle is 1" from the chamber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th41004 Posted June 1, 2016 Author Share Posted June 1, 2016 This morning I moved the nozzle up into the flare another inch. It is 2" form the flare opening, wind had died down also. I fired it up and it worked perfectly. I forged for 2 hours until I ran out of gas. It seems very efficient. I was able to get the 5/8 stock to forging temp with my gas pressure dropping to 2.5 psi. First time using a gas forge. I really like being able to see the steel color. Coal heated well, but it was a guessing game on metal color unless you pulled it out. Forge should be able to get metal to welding temp easily. I have learned so much form this forum and look forward to hopefully contributing once I get more experience with using gas. Thanks everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Good deal! Don't quit experimenting, you aren't going to get perfect but you might tweak a "little better" from it or most anything. You're contributing already there's nothing like watching folk problem solve to learn. This craft is about problem solving Seriously it's all about that piece of steel not being the right shape and solving the problem with fire and hammers. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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