natenaaron Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I am thinking this thing is completely not safe. I sprayed the rigidizer in it this morning and put it under a heat lamp for several hours. It was dry to the touch so I hooked the burner up and fired it up. Probably screwed up the rigidizer but I was a bit excited. forge is a cut 5 gallon propane tank. 2 layers of 1 inch ceramic insulation Burner is a Frosty burner. Burner will not light without a nozzle on the front when out of the forge. I do not have a regulator but I am thinking I need one. I fired the burner up in the forge and it stayed lit and sounded light a jet engine. I only got one pic of the dragon tongue before I saw flames shooting out the top of the hole I have the burner in. I shut it down right quick. When I looked into the forge before I took the pic I saw no blue. Here is the picture of the dragon tongue, very orange. Ignore the really bad welding. My welder was having issues and I kept welding as I fiddled with settings trying to figure out what was going on. I am not a good welder but I am NOT that bad. Before I go further I need to make sure I can stop the flames from shooting out the burner hole. Should I stuff some insulation into the hole around the burner? Any other advice would be very welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Greetings Nate, Best go back to basics... Regulator a must... Frosty will chime I right soon and give you a hand... Oh and I would move my bike.. Just this ol boys 2c Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 1, 2016 Share Posted January 1, 2016 Yes, get a regulator. Do NOT try to control the burner with the tank valve, opening the tank valve partially will cause erosion of the seats and after a while it won't close completely. Also do NOT turn it off hard, it's a precision valve and intended to close high pressure gas tight with no more than snug pressure. Say less than necessary to open a twist top soda bottle. More pressure will damage the seats and it won't close completely. Yeah, get a regulator though some guys use a needle valve I'm not a fan of half way measures. How far into the forge is the burner set? The end of the flare should only just be into the refractory. It's probably backfiring up the mount hole because you're pushing so much pressure OR the ceramic blanket is deflecting in the fast air/fuel stream as it gets hot. Rigidizer is to hold the blanket in position it's NOT a kiln wash it will degrade just about as fast as bare ceramic blanket. It will however encapsulate the fibers at least to a degree and minimize the health hazard. NAW, you're that bad a welder or you would've been able to adjust it properly after the second try. Don't sweat it, propane tanks aren't mild steel so what the chart on the welder says doesn't necessarily apply. As a little FYI one of the bladesmiths here, JPH maybe used an old propane tank in a pattern weld billet to good effect. The stuff evidently has more than average nickle in it. Nickle can make for a bit more challenge welding if you're new at it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted January 1, 2016 Author Share Posted January 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Jim Coke said: Oh and I would move my bike.. Just this ol boys 2c Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Technically not my bike (long story and why I hate arizona MVD) and not as close as it looks in the pic. Maybe 6 feet off to the side. Frosty, It was the machine, I swear . Will the flame calm down with the regulator and not shoot out the burner hole? The burner is sticking into the forge past the insulation about 1/2 inch and has no flare. I will back it out out. Will the flare help No refractory on it yet. That is Saturday's job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 They are totally right about needing a regulator, but you could also have gotten some very unpredictable back pressure effects from possible steam formation, which will continue until all water is boiled out of the rigidized ceramic fiber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 The tip of the burner tube should NOT extend through the refractory and yes the blanket is a refractory. Steam could be causing problems as well, the silica in the rigidizer will certainly cause orange or more specifically sodium yellow flames. The same color as high pressure sodium street lights. Try lighting it for longer periods of time and see if that doesn't help with the excessive yellow dragon's breath and back firig out the burner port. Is your burner aimed directly at the far wall? That can cause some interesting eddies in the flame that can sort of stall right around the burner port. Aligned in a tangent causes a vortex, the venturi effect will draw outside air in any smooth opening in the curved wall like a "pitot" tube. I only insert my burners a fraction of an inch into the liner. I kiln wash the burner ports, holes in the blanket and hard liner for the burners so they can withstand direct combustion from the burners. Materials directly in or in contact with the burner flames will suffer from erosion more that anywhere else in the forge chamber. JUST rigidizer is NOT enough. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted January 2, 2016 Share Posted January 2, 2016 Also be aware that whatever particles are in the air are being sucked in and burnt. Sweep the floor in the shop while the forge is running and watch the dragons breath color change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted January 2, 2016 Author Share Posted January 2, 2016 lots of help thanks. I am holding off lighting until get a proper regulator sometime this week. Yes the burner aims at the wall. Based on a thread I started about burner aiming, I thought the idea was to create a vortex in the burn chamber not aim the burner right at the floor. After lots of reading and youtube watching it looks like I misunderstood what I was told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Nate, You want to aim the burner at a hard refractory surface, whether castable refractory, a hard refractory brick, or a high alumina kiln shelf, or at minimum a mortar coating. Any decent burner wil; quickly destroy ceramic fiber, if you allow direct flame impingement on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 I have a fire brick floor to begin with. I misunderstood what I read and put the burner bole in the wrong place. A tiny mod will get it aimed in the right direction. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 @#@$%^%$ disappearing threads #$#@*&^()@#$$ burner!!!! As was mentioned that I do: I bought a HP regulator (no gauge though), re-positioned the burner hole, lined the forge (with satanite) and trimmed an 8th off the burner tip (making sure I reamed the tip to get rid of the bur). I fired it up. Burner is aimed in the right spot. Burner would only stay lit at very low pressure, with only blue flame. As a turned the pressure up I started to get some orange at the tips but still 90% blue. I let it warm up a bit then tried upping the pressure. I was able to go a bit higher but the flame kept going out. After a few tried the flame started crawling up the tube to the tip. There it would sputter and go out. At this time I do not have a flare. Any thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 How long is the mixing tube coming off the T? From the picture it appears the tube is too short or it is sticking into the forge thats why Frosty has asked twice. Review his burner instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Followed his instructions to a T. I did move it out. It is maybe a half inch into the lining. Forgot to mention that. I had a 3/4-1 inch reducer laying around so for giggles I screwed it onto the end of the burner. It ran better. I was not able to get any orange at low pressure but as I turned it up I got orange with blue. There was also a quick pu pu pu sound that neither increased or went away as I turned up the pressure. I did not time how long it took to get a 1/4 inch bar up to bright yellow but it was very little time at all. I will keep fiddling with the pressure but at least the fire stayed at the bottom of the mixing tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I need a picture of this. I'm not getting a good idea of whats causing the problem, just that it exists. I may not get right back, we have some life happening right now. The earthquake caused problems with out well and we have a couple of very sick dogs to doctor. Been pretty busy recently but I'll get back as soon as I can. Heck, I'll put this thread on my watch list so I get Email notices. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 higher pressure. low pressure showed same amount of blue. this is with the 3/4-1 inch adapter as a flare IMG 0534 480 hope life settles down soon, Frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.