Forging Carver Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 hi, First off happy thanksgiving and I hope everyone is having a good time with their families. So my issue is that I use a brakedrum as a forge, no pot. I recently upgraded from anthracite to bituminous which I love. My only issue is that I have trouble heating my steel in it. I have it buried in hot coal and it won't heat. It is driving me so crazy. And no the steel isn't tugsten. At the moment I am into carving knives which really makes me want to switch to a soap can forge or another type of gas forge. Maybe my issue is that I need a table around my brake drum? Any tips? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 You're using that semi brake drum aren't you? If my memory serves that's your problem, ditch it and find or buy something more appropriate. An old washing machine lid on a table with a hole just large enough to let a pot like thingy slip in and rest on a rim works a treat. Pack DAMP clayey soil around the pot to the edge and you're golden. A 6" cast iron skillet is a touch too wide but will serve if you can't find a disk rotor or just fab something up. It doesn't need to be thick plate or packed with refractory or any of those over thought mods. Just a fire resistant bowl with an air supply. A foot or so of soil rammed hard on a table top with a trench scraped in makes an outstanding side blast forge. Charles has posted instructions with specific dimensions so many times I won't be surprised if he just stops doing so. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 27, 2015 Author Share Posted November 27, 2015 Yeah I am definitely making a new forge after the holidays when I get some more cash. Should I make a pot with angled sides or will a rotor work the same? I do not have a welder, but there is some stuff I want to get welded so I will put that on the list if it makes a big difference. Also, what would you do frosty to use a rivet forge. Would you clay it up, and if so how? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 27, 2015 Share Posted November 27, 2015 Don't be in a rush to run out and buy a welder. I see tons of good deals on CL for them fairly regularly. It can save you a bundle over new. When you think you might be interested, PM or Email me with your zipcode and I'll browse thru the CL adds and see if anything good jumps out at me in your area. I often find the basic transformer AC only stick machines for about $50 listed on Cl. You never know what you can find though. I've seen a few postings from other areas for some really nice Ac/DC stick machines for $150-300 lately. If the $150 one was close by, I'd have grabbed it just to sell it to someone learning because it was such a good deal. Depending how far away you are, we might be able to hook up after Christmas if you need stuff welded. Strousburg where you picked up the coal is a pretty good haul for me and I know you are past that. We'll have to see how things shape out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 Alright thanks. Yeah that would be great if you guys ever found one cheap. Next time you guys got a stroudsburg meeting, I will definetly come. Is there a way I can get notifications for upcoming events? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 You don't need a welder, you have a hand drill and can afford bolts yes? The amount of force that gets applied to a fire pot is really minimal it's not like you're going to be standing a couple hundred lbs. in it are you? You can cut sheet or light plate with a jig saw and hammer corners over for seams, drill and bolt it together. A brake rotor or economy car brake drum is plenty of fire pot for most applications especially climbing the basic skills curve. And no you don't "need" a table but they're sure handy but don't wait till you can make one to build a forge and get hammering. Another easy forge is a duck's nest, just a little depression in a table with an air grate in the bottom. Stack fire brick around the grate to shape the fire and you're in business. These things really are as simple as a fire pit on a camp trip. Simpler actually. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 1 hour ago, Forging Carver said: Alright thanks. Yeah that would be great if you guys ever found one cheap. Next time you guys got a stroudsburg meeting, I will definetly come. Is there a way I can get notifications for upcoming events? Thanks Here's the PABA newsletter for last month. It has a listing of all the 2016 events that they know of right now. Andrews shop is the October meeting. Last page is the membership application. For your $25 they will send you an email copy as well as a printed copy of the bimonthly newsletter and send you emails of any new events or schedule changes. PABA November 2015.pdf Let me know when you are ready to look for a welder and what your price range is. Deals don't pop up every day, but if you are willing to travel a bit, it's not too hard to find some decent stuff especially in NY city or Philly fairly regularly. Glen doesn't get any moneys from CL listings, so he understandably doesn't want to promote someone elses stuff here. Once I know you are serious, I'll keep my eyes open more regularly to see what's out there. I don't see anything really cheap right now, but I did see a few really nice machines listed at reasonable prices that if I was in the market I'd look at closer if I had the funds. I just hate to hear new guys who rush right out and spend $300 on a brand new Lincoln AC 225 buzz box at some place like Depot, when I see them fairly regularly in the $50-150 listed. The "off brand" ones like Craftsman, Montgomery Wards, Century, Dayton etc are every bit as good as the small Lincolns if not better many times, and most are built like a tank with almost nothing serious in them to break. I've passed on some decent deals to guys I teach in class and so on semi regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Forging Carver, Have you built a side blast 55 forge yet? Simple as can be and under $20. No welding needed. Runs on solid fuels such as coal, coke, charcoal, wood (pallets) etc. There is no clay needed, just fuel and fire. Although you can find a welder useful, until you understand the design and the way a fire pot contains the fire and the type or style heat it produces, you will not know which design to build, square, round, rectangular, etc. I am saying if you have the money and find a welder that works, you still need training on how to use it properly, and make a weld that is strong enough to actually work. Until you learn the basics of welding, how to run a bead other than horizontal, and make a structural weld, you may want to reconsider a forge as a first project. For instance which welding rod are you going to use and why? What amperage are you going to use to run that rod? What shade lens are you going to use and why? You going to use a fixed shade, a variable shade, or an auto darkening shade and why? When you have the answers to these and other questions, you are over running you knowledge base by plugging in the welder. Put your money on the table and purchase a half dozen fire pots and use them under controlled conditions that are the same for each test pot. You will in time like one better than the others. Use that one. Or back up a bit and for $20 or less build the side blast 55 forge and have a forge that WILL reach welding heat, and give you a standard by which you can judge the other forges. It is your call and your money. We will support your decision as long as it is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 28, 2015 Author Share Posted November 28, 2015 Alright thanks glenn and dsw. I never exactly said I wanted a welder yet, only that I wanted to get stuff welded from a welder. However if I do find a good welder at a good price, I figured why not pick it up if I got the cash. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 28, 2015 Share Posted November 28, 2015 Go to the welding supply store and tell them what you are doing, what you want, and ask them to keep an eye out for any trade ins when new equipment is sold, used, or demo units. You may be surprised what might become available. It may be a bit more machine than you currently need, but may be about the same price. You never know until you ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Alright thanks. I don't think I am going to get a welder any time soon cause I will need a welding table and a decent face shield which I do not have the cash for at the moment and when I do get the cash I need it to make a new forge with chimney and get a post vise. A decent self darkening face shield is like 90 bucks and the table I suppose can be made with scrap. Thanks for the tips as they will come in good use in the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Why do you need a welding table? 2 saw horses or a flat spot on the ground have been used for years. Miller welding helmets shade 10 start at $40 or so. Add bells and whistles and the price goes up.And you do not need a high dollar welder, people make emergency welding repairs with 12v batteries. FC The point is you, in my opinion, need to choose one project and concentrate on only that project until you get it finished. You do not need the very best equipment the market has to offer. For instance a Buffalo forge is nice but a hole in the ground has been used for hundred of years. A NEW anvil is nice, but there is a lifetime or two still left in a used anvil, and many places would be glad to have just a big chunk of metal to beat on. It is your money, spend or invest it as you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Don't get tool blind , a standard welding helmet will work fine, just as they have for the last several decades...... I had a couple given to me recently. I see standard helmets at garage sale for $10 or less. I was selling them for $5 each after I bought around 20 at a school auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Good optics are important in a welding helmet. However that doesn't mean you have to spend a fortune. The optics on my fixed shade Jackson big view hood are every bit as good if not better than that of my $300 Miller auto dark hood. Only advantage the AD hood has is that I can dial the shade as needed when changing processes working with students at the tech school, and I can keep the hood down and watch their body position as they go to strike an arc. ( Many never realize how much they move between when the drop their hood and when the strike the arc.) Don't get me wrong, Good quality AD hoods cost decent money ( HF hoods aren't worth jack because of how poor the optics are), but a fixed hood is just as good and can be picked up dirt cheap many times. A good fixed shade lens and you are good to go. My original welding instructor wouldn't let any new student use an AD hood. He wanted everyone to at least know how to use a fixed shade hood as at some point chances are they'd need to use one if the batteries died in the AD hood. As far as a welding table, most of the stuff I do is either off saw horses or the ground most of the time. On occasion I'll toss some sort of "table" material across the horses. I've used plywood in a pinch, but a sheet of cement board works really well. Eventually I'll find a nice flat piece of 1/4" plate to use, but chances are I'll use it more forging doing hot layout than I will welding. That's really what I use a table for mostly, layout and mock up. I can do that on simple plywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 3 hours ago, Forging Carver said: Alright thanks. I don't think I am going to get a welder any time soon PM sent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Forging Carver, I use a "portable" welding table. I don't do any heavy or large welding, so it's ideal for me. I have an outside small-ish work table build from 2x4's and 2x6's, with a top about 3' by 4'. I use that for general working on stuff I don't want to bugger up my shop inside. For welding I got a piece of 3/16" sheet steel (1/4" was too heavy) about the same size as the outside workbench and welded a couple of handles on one side. When I need to weld, I put the sheet on the workbench. The bench provides a flat surface so the steel won't flex. When finished, I just slide it off and I have my workbench back. The bench is under a large metal shed, so weather isn't a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forging Carver Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Alright thanks for the help. I wasn't sure if you could weld on the ground in that you would need to attach the ground cable to something which what I mostly see is the welding table. I plan on getting/making a new forge with a duct chimney first, then get a post vise, then get a welder. Thanks for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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