Ice Czar Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 along with a bunch of other goodies (which I will soon post pics of) I got a 3 foot piece of RR rail for Xmas and a great need for specialized hammers Id like to make while many of them would be for copperbronze repousse how suitable would the steel be for general blacksmithing hammers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 Others will know more than me and will hopefully step up if I'm wrong but I know quite a few blokes who've used RR track for tools. In point of fact I took a chunk I had stored down to the forge I work at a few days back ( a 200 mile trip btw ) because I reckon it will make some very nice hardy tools. As to making a hammer I don't see why not. I might try one myself from this stuff. Just to clear things up the 200 mile trip wasn't just for the chunk of RR. I also shifted all of my silver working gear (gas furnace, Reil style burner, burn out oven, vacuum jig, debubbler table, crucibles etc etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Funk Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 RR rail is generally in the range of 1070 to 1095 steel. The newer and heavier rail is generally on the upper end of this range (140 lb/yd) and the older and smaller rail is in the lower end of this range (100 lb/yd) This would be an appropriate steel for many tools including hammers. However this is a plain carbon steel and has some limitations. MAKE CERTAIN THAT THESE TOOLS ARE APPROPRIATELY TEMPERED! High carbon plain carbon steels are very brittle unless appropriately tempered. Most commercial hammers made after World War II are alloy steels containing chrome, molly, nickel and similar alloys. These alloys improve the toughness and hardenability of the steel. These are desirable atributes. However plain carbon steel was used for many years with satisfactory results. Blacksmiths used plain carbon steels from the mid to late 1800's upto the current time. Expensive blacksmith tools with good reputations are still being produced from carbon steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdwarner Posted December 26, 2007 Share Posted December 26, 2007 hey Ice love your signature , will forge for food , wish i could use it . but i would be afriad some one would take me up on it and with my forging skills i would starve to death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Czar Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 thanks for all the replies so far need to study up on the specific tempering regime Id employ I guess (we do alot of re-tempering air hammer chisels, since we chisel steel hot quite a bit, but odds are they are all alloys, Ive had plenty of opportunities to do it wrong ) thanx re: the sig its actually a t-shirt slogan I came up with for a coworker, its actually "will for(^a)ge for food" he is quite the great white hunter blacksmith :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstreckfuss Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I posted this elsewhere but here it is again: Specs for new rail: Standard rail steel: .74 to.86% Carbon, .75 to 1.25% Manganese, .10 to .60% Silicon Minimum Brinell (of unhardened surface) 310 or 370 dependant of grade ordered. Low Alloy Rail Steel .72 to .82% Carbon, .80 to 1.10% Manganese, .25 to .40& Chromium, .10 to .50% Silicon Minimum Brinell (of unhardened surface) 310, 325, or 370 dependant of grade ordered. The head may or not be hardened depending on the piece of track you have. Hardened head rail is used in heavy curve applications, or so I am told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 RR rail should make a good hammer.....I'll find out today as I will go forge one. the specs for the metal fit okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 I cut a 4" piece off a section of rr rail and then cut off the web and bottom flat. I forged the top part to 1 1/2" square which drew it out to about 5 1/2" or so. That was as far as I got this morning, so I left it to anneal in the gasser. I do not recommend forging this stuff without a power hammer..not only for the size, but it is tough material. I believe it will make a good hammer, just need to decide what type of hammer to make out of it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted December 27, 2007 Share Posted December 27, 2007 Yes We Will Need Pics!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Czar Posted December 27, 2007 Author Share Posted December 27, 2007 without a power hammer I get to dance with Big Bertha ehh??? she's a temperamental lady, 100lb Little Giant that xxxx near broke my thumb when I was trying to texture a 12'x16"x1/8th" panel for a stringer a few months ago, xxxx awkward dimension once the work hardening sets in Id like pics too just went out and grabbed a few sledge hickory handles to whittle down with the draw knife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 here is the hammer from rr rail...a double diagonal pein #2 (Dale Russel has #1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Czar Posted December 28, 2007 Author Share Posted December 28, 2007 them thar links is dun busted but then Im pretty good at guessing Rail Road Rail hammer - Blacksmith Picture Gallery beAyoutitFul (the urls somehow got parsed with /forum, just delete that and they'll all work) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sstreckfuss Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 Nice work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 this just proves that you can pretty much make whatever you want out of any steel.....just have to put the effort into it.....:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogo Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 How about car and truck axels and sway bars for small hammers? Is the steel of a high enough carbon? I've read that you just harden it and dont back temper it but im not convinced. Drogo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 5, 2008 Share Posted January 5, 2008 Axles and drive shafts, make excellent hammers, by sway shafts I think we know them as anti roll bars or torsion bars and I would use them for punches or drifts As to heat treating the hammers, usually I would just heat treat the surface in use. This can be done in a variety of ways, finish the piece to your required finish (Polished/shiny) heat the piece to above its critical range (non magnetic) then quench in oil, remove from oil and while still dull red, quickly repolish the working face area with a stone or other suitable method, and as tempering colours run down to the working face, at the appropriate colour (Purple (ish)) quench the face until cool. Another way if you have a running water supply nearby is to wrap a rag / cloth around the tap (faucet?) and turn on to a slow steady stream/trickle of water, when the hammer head is dull red to black, concentrate this flow onto the centre of the working surface where it will steam away quite vigorously, keep this going until the piece is cool enough to be easily handled, I use this method on ball/round faced hammers as it seems to give a good result for me. Or, as in the case of a leafing hammer, and where it is required to have both ends hard wearing, then I use a local heat (oxy acetelyne or propane or in the forge) and have a shallow container containing the quenching oil, heat the face and a small distance back from it, then when red, immerse the end into the oil and it can be left in until cool, repeat for other end. My criteria for hammers etc is that they should have a hardened working face that will not easily chip, and a tough but not brittle body. Experiment with what works for you and wear glasses when using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drogo Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 John B- Thanks for the info Drogo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 The rail is nice because it will also work harden quite a bit, old rail that has seen a lot of heavy traffic might not have started with a hardened face but after years of heavy rail traffic, it is good and hard... A nice tip is to make a starter cut with a cut off wheel before trying to cut it with the bandsaw;-) If you wanted to you could just normalize the hammer head and work only hot steel to develop the set for your hammer, at your anvil. Use it till it takes a definite "set" where you can see where you aren't hitting perfectly flat, dress it slightly and you can do a normall selective heat treat or just continue to use it as is. The Maganenes make it a deep hardening alloy so try the selective heat treating methods, John B suggested, be sure to temper the edges back good;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintjohnbarleycorn Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 I have some old sledge hammer heads that i picked up, would they also be good, or are they softer? thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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