Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Felt like sharing, making some friends from pitty haha!. I struck my first hot steel today, hard work, so much respect to all of you! It went better than expected, but not as well as i had hoped! My forge works, it gets the steel red, almost yellow hot, however i started with some 1/2" bar stock i got from a buddy, it took me about 45 minutes to get a 5" lenght of it down to about 1/4 thick.....im using a 3lbs hammer, and im no weakling, is that normal? Or should it flatten easier? I have no idea of the makeup of the steel :/. Regardless me and my fiance had fun, other than the mosquitos, i think im going to enjoy this trade very much. Thanks for any feed back, poke fun if you want, i have a good sence of humor! Haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) I was forbidden my usual welcome and admonishment to add your general location to the header. Congrats on taking your first hit of the craft. There's no going back now you're well and truly hooked.Next time try forging over the edge of your anvil or rail, I don't recall and use half face blows. A half face blow is one where you aim the center of the hammer at the anvil's edge so half the hammer face is off the anvil. This greatly increases the psi at impact and the edge acts as a fuller.Rotate the stock 1/4 turn after each blow, just back and forth is fine. What this does is take advantage of basic physics. When you hit a piece of stock it smooshes out like stepping on dog poo, just not so far. What the stock does is spread in each direction so if you strike it in the same position again two factors prevail, 1st. you're striking a much wider surface so psi drops significantly. 2nd. more stock is in contact with the anvil so heat is conducted away MUCH faster. Both factors mean less effect from the energy you apply.When you roll the stock 1/4 turn after a blow it's standing on edge and the edges are bulged out so contact area with the anvil is a SMALL fraction of the original bar, let alone the recently smooshed flat surface. This has two effects: 1st. Almost no stock is in direct contact with the anvil so very VERY little heat is absorbed by it. 2nd. The surface impacted by the hammer is equally small so the actual psi is thousands of times as great.Using this simple technique your work stays HOT longer, heck with practice it'll get hotter for a time AND you're apply significantly more force so it MUST more farther.Half face blows over the edge increase the force applied as well and reduce anvil contact. These are GOOD things.And that my friend is a hammer control and stock manipulation tip from a crusty old curmudgeon. Just don't tell anybody, it's a blacksmith S-E-C-R-E-T. <shhhhhh> Frosty The Lucky. Edited August 17, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Were you just flattening it out flat down to 1/4" or drawing it out, keeping it round, down to 1/4"? Drawing it out would take longer than just flattening. Sounds like you need to get the metal hotter, try yellow heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Frosty, i hope you teach, or atleast do apprenticing, beautiful directions sir. Thank you greatly, will try tomorrow. Frozen, im honestly just whacking metal lol i didnt bother grabbing a plan, and drawing, because im 100 precent sure it wont go that way being as its my first try. Im just flattening it, if i can make a somewhat uniform, flat, 1/8" thick bar, i will be very happy at just that. I might grind that, or maybe make a nice book mark? Yeah, i think getting it hotter would help as well.......cant blame me too much, i was anxious to see sparks fly. I will wait longer, and do as frosty said next time. Thanks a ton guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Yeah I take a student on now and again but mostly I like talking even if I have to make things up. If you're burning coal or charcoal you need fire tools, a fire rake is first. draw a square point back about 2-3"on the end of a piece of your 1/2" stock. Once it's a square taper to a point flatten it on one side, it'll look like a leaf. Now bend it about 90* with a little radius in the bend and put a little crook in the pointy tip. Let that end cool and decide how long you want it so you can reach to the far side of the fire without burning yourself and add about 4-6".When the blade is cool enough to hold heat the handle end and bend it in a ring. You can do this either by hanging the end over the anvil edge and striking OFF the edge. Any steel NOT laying on the anvil when struck WILL bend. So, as it bends advance it and strike it again, you'll find out quickly how hard to hit it just don't start by whaling on it.Once the curve turns into a hook or runs into the anvil's side flip it hook UP on the anvil so it's resting just on the flat behind the turn. Now strike the outside of the turn so the hammer is traveling towards the anvil at impact but the curve gets in the way. Picture rolling a jelly roll using a hammer.This is actually a LOT easier than it sounds but takes a little practice. Remember force ALWAYS takes the path of least resistance and materials always yield at the weakest point. What that means is if you picture the letter J laying on it's back on the anvil and strike straight down the turn will close up (get tighter) because the force is going straight towards the anvil and the weakest point of the turn is half way between where the leverage against it is greatest. However if you strike at that half way point the weakest point is actually in the straight section laying on the anvil so it'll roll up some.Clear as mud? You'll get it pretty quick or just get someone to show you, it's really easy. So, the reason you're turning a ring on the end of your fire rake is so you can hang it, just turn it into a closed ring and make it a nice flat ring.And that's a working fire rake, if you don't have a solid fuel forge make it for the fire place, BBQ or camp fire. If you make it for the fire place wood stove, etc. dress up the handle section with a twist. adjust the vise so it's about 1/2 crank from tight and adjust a crescent wrench so it's snug. Heat the rake's handle section evenly, quickly clamp it in the vise and using the wrench twist it from the end. Move FAST! don't sweat it if it gets all wonky, it's really REALLY hard to keep it straight using a crescent wrench, we'll talk about making a twisting wrench another time. Oh yeah, wonky tool handle using a wood block and whocker (Wooden mallet or baseball bat, tree limb bowling pin etc.) on the medium red hot handle whock it straight. Whock it crown up like you're nailing lumber down for the same reason.Project 2 is a tool, cool huh? Oh yeah, if you don't want to get that complicated try drawing uniform square points a few inches long, cut the stock 6"-8" long and bend the end 1" a hard 100*. We called em tent stakes in the boy Scouts but they're good for staking all sorts of stuff down. If you have soft soil, say sand make them longer but paint the ends a bright color so folk don't trip on them.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Very nice ideas, more so than knifes. I am using propane however. Its not the best, but it works, all i could locate in Knoxville TN, was some ceramic fiber board.......i guess its decent. However i did find some silica based kiln brick.....going to get those tomorrow, so hopfully with these awesome pointers from you guys, and a little bit better forge, i might get that book mark sooner than i thought! lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frozenforge Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Search under refactory supplies, Im sure there are a few listings in Knoxville. Keep hammering. You will learn more with each session and gain an appreciation for how things were made in the past! Look up pictures of simple brick forges, they are simple yet versatile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.J.watts Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Some books to check out, The backyard blacksmith, Blacksmith Projects, $50 knife shop, and Steve Sells book Introduction to knife making. blacksmith projects has a lot of basic and advanced projects in it and it goes in to good detail. All except Steve's book are on amazon.Steve Sells book is for sale here in the I Forgeiron store. http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/40865-introduction-to-knifemaking/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 I have the 50$ dollar knife shop, super cool book! So i got my bricks today, made a nice little 1.5"x8" chamber. It gets much hotter than the ceramic board alone, however im starting to have my doubts as far as my propane/torch go. I think the torch is good, its for pre-heating steel before a weld, however the control knobs on it, about 2 turns out, it no longer dumps more fuel, its like the propane bottle is to the max. Would a regulator fix this? Or just a larger bottle? Im just using the 16oz propane handhelds......not so great. Ive got the cash for a larger bottle, however not sure if that will help to get more flame and heat, or i need a better burner, i know i could use both, just wondering what i would see a more dramatic difference from.....also i have photos of my setup, its sure to dazzle you all. Lol thanks for helping a noob out, im trying to pay my dues just as you all did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Very nice ideas, more so than knifes. I am using propane however. Its not the best, but it works, all i could locate in Knoxville TN, was some ceramic fiber board.......i guess its decent. However i did find some silica based kiln brick.....going to get those tomorrow, so hopfully with these awesome pointers from you guys, and a little bit better forge, i might get that book mark sooner than i thought! lol! How did you search for HVAC suppliers? Online isn't always the best method, I spend more time deleting ads the IT geeks who wrote the search engines THINK I should buy than reading company info. Have you tried the yellow pages, the paper ones? When I started my search many years ago I tried ceramics studios and suppliers but was scared off by the prices. Still if it's the only game in town. . . However I guarantee you there are commercial furnaces in or near Knoxville and they NEED servicing so there ARE companies doing it full time. Give one a call, ask the receptionist if s/he has a little time to spare for an unusual request. You'll be surprised how much office folk NEED a little out of the ordinary in their day. Even if they don't sell to the public, the guys doing the work will have scraps from jobs and being licensed and bonded they can't legally use scraps in a job so the stuff is just taking up space. If they don't use the materials you're looking for, (Specifically, 2,600f, 1", 8lb. Kaowool (by brand) or the equivalent ceramic blanket) They certainly will know who does. I've never had someone tell me to shove off they're too busy to tell me to call XxX or talk to Biff in the shop. Web searches are far too impersonal to do this kind of hunting/gathering. However you can certainly find a phone number to start the ball rolling. Have you CALLED, Ferguson HVAC? https://www.ferguson.com/branch/knoxville-tn-hvac Ferguson is listed as an industrial supplier of HVAC in addition to installing and servicing. I'll bet they send dumpsters of refractory trimmings and drops to the dump weekly.Seriously, the phone makes you a human being and being pleasant makes you a good guy. People WANT to help good guys. Walking in and talking to the guys who design and spec out furnaces, boilers, etc. puts you in their world. The guys on the desks live controlled fire and talking forging furnaces is a holiday for them. I deal exclusively with EJ Bartell in Anchorage and it's almost impossible to leave without them loading my back seat with rems. Kaowool, light fire brick, pieces of refractory to test for them, etc. Seriously I have to say no more and they're disappointed if I don't take enough.However, I'm a likable Bull Shooter and can get along with almost anybody. It's like a super power you know and not everybody can walk in "cold" off the street and strike up a relationship. Still, just being polite and interested in THEIR work goes a LONG ways.Frosty The Lucky. Edited August 17, 2015 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Check it out buddy, got me some of those magic bricks........finally! Sorry for the wacky picture layout......had to crop them to death to get them under 500kb. Thanks for any feed back, try not to be jealous of my sweet gear............lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I would highly recommend building a Frosty T-burner and getting a good 0-30 psi propane regulator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Im working at a blown forge, i have endless steel fab, at my garage. I can only work on it during my free time after work however, so its going to take me a bit of time, trying to make it awesome. Just dying to get my feet wet with this little guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 I think part of your problem may be that anvil sitting on the ground, is letting hammer blows bounce it, meaning you are losing some of the energy to the earth... a more solid and massive base like tree stump will help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codycrusenberry Posted August 17, 2015 Author Share Posted August 17, 2015 Why did i not think of that? Lol i used to cut trees for money when i was a teen......obvious. i guess im so busy over thinking things.......and underthinking others. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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