Frosty Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 My shop is 30'x40' and it was getting crowded before the roof was on. I wish Deb would buy a Tig welder so I could buy a plasma cutter. I'd be more than happy to teach her to weld.Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 We use our garage as the shop. It's a three-bay garage and we were using the single bay as the shop. +/- 29' x 12'. In the other two bays we packed an F250, a Toyota Tacoma, and two motorcycles. We started suffering "shop creep" and I haven't been able to park my F250 indoors for well over a year now. Good thing it never really snows here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Garages are for tools, not cars silly. It snows lots here and the can never goes inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbasan Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Teeny, please say that again in plain English. I'm not covering the metal with anything, except heat. The original melt of two metals is done in a reduced atmosphere in the forge. There is almost no oxidation occurring during the first alloy stage, subsequent melts for casting are done in the crucible on the bench top.Hey Bubba, I really like the looks of your Shibu. Thanks for the recipes too.Of the three pieces shown, what recipe is each one?Cliffrat, the tsuba and the seppa are shibuichi , the Habaki is bronze . The formula is 60% silver 40% copper.I make a lot of shibu, and from my experience heating it to cherry red then quench . I know a lot of folks don't anneal that much , but that's the secret , anneal anneal annealOtherwise it may develop microscopic cracks that will only get bigger. Shibuichi gets work hardened very easily . I know its the hard way of forging it but, it also is the safest.Most people think shibu is a Japanese alloy ... only by name . It was used by the Romans to make coins, and the South Americans used it also . Later on the Japaneseadapted it to make sword fittings.. It means Mysterious metal . In feudal Japan it was valued more than gold . Because of the way it patinates ,different color depending on your skin acid/ alkaline PH........ They assumed something spiritual was causing the difference..... So it held a spiritual place in Japanese metal smithing.. Still does!Bubba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Cliffrat, the tsuba and the seppa are shibuichi , the Habaki is bronze . The formula is 60% silver 40% copper.I make a lot of shibu, and from my experience heating it to cherry red then quench . I know a lot of folks don't anneal that much , but that's the secret , anneal anneal annealOtherwise it may develop microscopic cracks that will only get bigger. Shibuichi gets work hardened very easily . I know its the hard way of forging it but, it also is the safest.Most people think shibu is a Japanese alloy ... only by name . It was used by the Romans to make coins, and the South Americans used it also . Later on the Japaneseadapted it to make sword fittings.. It means Mysterious metal . In feudal Japan it was valued more than gold . Because of the way it patinates ,different color depending on your skin acid/ alkaline PH........ They assumed something spiritual was causing the difference..... So it held a spiritual place in Japanese metal smithing.. Still does!Bubba bubba. I don't understand 60/40? I thought the name Shibuichi meant 25/75? Is that not the case? I guess it wouldn't surprise me but 60/ 40 is just new to me, I have made all mine 25 silver75 Cu. I bet your works much easier than mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Teeny, Bubba put a list of different recipes with accompanying names for them in a previous post on page 1. Some of them mix a little gold in them, (I assume for coloration?) I think Ferguson mentions using different ratios of copper to silver as well, pointing out the different working characteristics. I've been using a roughly 50/50 mix mostly because I screwed up a mokume billet and decided to just melt it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbasan Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Hello Teeny, Yes there are several recipes . as cliff says some use gold . It makes the shibu look like Black hills gold. Its called black shibuichi.Shibuichi literally means mysterious metal . Japanese language is funny , words have many meanings depends on the context. Metal in Japanese is Tetsu as in nanban Tetsu( foreign steel) so I am not sure how they translated it ? Many words in Japanese are interchangeable with Chinese Kanji.. Bubba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffrat Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Hello Teeny, Yes there are several recipes . as cliff says some use gold . It makes the shibu look like Black hills gold. Its called black shibuichi.Shibuichi literally means mysterious metal . Japanese language is funny , words have many meanings depends on the context. Metal in Japanese is Tetsu as in nanban Tetsu( foreign steel) so I am not sure how they translated it ? Many words in Japanese are interchangeable with Chinese Kanji.. BubbaI really appreciate the knowledge sharing Bubba. I am moving towards making more alloys for my knife fittings. I just get tired of the same old materials and love the experimentation. When I was hammering out the Shibu and I got small surface cracks, I would dip it in a weak pickle solution before reheating. Then I would slightly over-heat the piece until the surface started to melt and the cracks closed up. I wondered if this was causing me any more problems. Folks around here are making me reconsider how I heat this stuff. I currently use an oxy-acetylene torch. How do you recommend heating for the annealing? Garages are for tools, not cars silly. It snows lots here and the car never goes inside. Oh yeah, that made my wife laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 My shop is 30'x40' and it was getting crowded before the roof was on. I wish Deb would buy a Tig welder so I could buy a plasma cutter. I'd be more than happy to teach her to weld.Frosty The Lucky.We need a reason to buy a plasma cutter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubbasan Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I really appreciate the knowledge sharing Bubba. I am moving towards making more alloys for my knife fittings. I just get tired of the same old materials and love the experimentation. When I was hammering out the Shibu and I got small surface cracks, I would dip it in a weak pickle solution before reheating. Then I would slightly over-heat the piece until the surface started to melt and the cracks closed up. I wondered if this was causing me any more problems. Folks around here are making me reconsider how I heat this stuff. I currently use an oxy-acetylene torch. How do you recommend heating for the annealing?Oh yeah, that made my wife laugh.Seems like the over heating can cause some problems as it has for me. I use a plain handheld propane torch . I just keep annealing and hammer some until it get worked hardened and I start again . More work obviously but, product has less cracks and exfoliation of metal. Just seems to work better for me . I hate to have to repair some cracks although its part of making the material . Bubba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) We need a reason to buy a plasma cutter? Not married? It's getting the better half to sign off on buying most anything that's the trick.Frosty The Lucky. Edited October 23, 2015 by Frosty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natenaaron Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I'm married. You said reason, not permission. That took some "esplainin"Actually turned out to be one of the better business decisions I have made. So good in fact she is glad she thought of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 I'm married. You said reason, not permission. That took some "esplainin"Actually turned out to be one of the better business decisions I have made. So good in fact she is glad she thought of it. You ARE married. You are right, I should have said "GOOD" reason as in something acceptable to the missus.Frosty The Lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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