John Martin Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 I've started using hardwood charcoal. I don't like the fleas, but I'll get used to them. Also, I can't get my metal any hotter than orange. With the briquettes that I was using before, I got it to forge weld temperature, and i even melted some projects with briquettes(on accident). What can I do to fix this,...what do all of master smiths suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Briquettes have a little coal in them and some other stuff that acts as a binder (doesn't sound too appetizing to cook over, does it?) so they may burn just a bit hotter. I'd suggest you try busting the hardwood charcoal into pieces about at big as ping pong ball or a little smaller. More surface area spells more available heat. If you ever watch the Japanese smiths work on a sword in a charcoal forge, you'll notice the fuel is very consistent in size and fairly small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 Me and my brother break, chop, or cut all bigger pieces to about a 1in cube. Also, is there a way to limit the fleas so that you don't have to be completely covered to go near the fire, cuz the fleas are within like 2ft everywhere, like your grinding something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 A chimney is not just to get the smoke up and out of your face, it will also do to redirect the fleas up and away from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 What wood are you using for the charcoal? You said hardwood but is it a fairly dense charcoal? Some woods are notorious for fleas apparently, and soft wood charcoal burns down faster than good hardwood charcoal, leading to more fleas. How deep is your fire? Is there a good white hot area for you to put your metal around/in? What size stock are you using? I'm assuming not too big from your previous posts but I could be wrong. What are you using for the air source. If you're not exaggerating about the fleas distance, you have some pretty good air pressure to push them that far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 I am using two blow driers. Like the fleas are down and then boom there everywhere, then down, then boom. I'm using RR spikes. 5/16" round stock right now. My fire is 3-8in depending on where you are. There is a good white spot, but I don't understand why it won't heat to yellow or white. It's hickory and oak, at least that's what the bags say. it also a side draft forge that I built with bricks. It has air from the side and from the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Two hair driers? You tried it with just one? Fleas are proportional to amount of air, and I've heard that one hair drier should be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 How deep is the fire? How large is the fire ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Without Pictures it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 27, 2007 Author Share Posted October 27, 2007 I get pictures tonight, and as soon as my camera cord gets fixed, I'll upload them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Always remember heat rises, so you'll get much more heat, and less oxidization closer to the top of the heart of the fire but you still want to stay in it. Have you tried moving the metal around with a constant blast and finding the hot spot? I'd also suggest backing off to one hairdryer, especially for the size of work you're doing and see how that helps with the fleas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnW Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 m_brothers, I can only guess, you can check these out. As others have pointed out in previous posts, too much air can blow the heat right out of the fire. Use just enough air to get that tranlucent glow. Are you making your own charcoal? If so, are you getting the wood fully charred? You can test this by how easily it breaks apart, and by how much flames and smoke in the forge. If you can't crush it or break it in your hands, then that's wood, not charcoal. Wood has to burn down to coals in the forge, you would notice smoke and excessive flames, and taller flames, at the start. Charcoal is way lighter than wood and squeaky. Are you getting all of the ashes sifted out or washed out or whatever, the ashes can cool your fire. Also, sifting gets out the small particiles. Fines may be good in coal, but not in charcoal. If you make charcoal by a direct burn method, using wood splitt into 1" or 2" diameter sticks (length isn't important except as how it relates to the burning container) the wood will break up into uasable size pieces as it burns. Charcoal brickettes are way different than wood charcoal. Charcoal gets an orange or yellow glow all the way through as its burning. If you have the charcoal stacked 8" deep with you work piece (say a bar) 2" below the surface, the charcaol on top will be mostly black and white, but you will see this yellow or orange glow below the surface. It getts brighter and yellower as the steel gets hotter. After a few times you call tell the color of the steel just by looking at the charcoal. One thing, you said your forge was 8" in one place. Is there any possibility that the length of the piece of steel that you're using keeps it from getting into a good position in the fire? Is this steel similiar to what you've already had good experience with. No joy yet? Maybe hand pick a couple gallon of you best pieces of charcoal and try forging. Enough already, hitch hike to Indiana. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 I think it was too much air, tonight, I forge welded together to bars, which i later melted by leaving in forge for to long, i always have that problem, once i achieve a good heat. I melt my stuff by accident, anyway to prevent that, or to get piece out of fire before that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmercier Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 you need to just pay attention to what you're doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I have a bad tendency of melting my projects at demos. Not used to coal and get distracted easily talking to people. Doesn't take long when some of the old boys get on the blower and get going the heat up their piece that's in the fire with yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 Oh. Should I switch to coal? I have it designed for both charcoal or coal. Only problem is, is that, coal is a bit expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 M brothers have you seen this site A homemade "blast" furnace might adress some of the problems your having Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted October 28, 2007 Author Share Posted October 28, 2007 it addressed some, but I guess it just is error and trial to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Failures are sometimes the best way to learn something. The true failure is not learning from them. Something to think about the next time you're afraid to take a risk on something that may fail; most of the greatest scientific discoveries have been accidental findings from a failed experiment. As for switching to coal, why bother at your stage? I enjoy the challenge of thinking around problems like this by picking apart the variables. Switching to a new fuel will likely lead to as many new problems and cost you money. If you can now achieve welding heat with this fire, start learning the nuances of your forge and charcoal. Once you learn how to control the fire, you can think about other fuels if you want, but if you have a steady supply of wood, why bother. IMO if it worked for how many generations of smiths, it can work for me too. Plus you're using a more renewable resource than coal when it's managed right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 don't give up your having fun..while I have to sit here and work and only read about your fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRon_FOrgerI22 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Are regular charcoal briquetis good enough to make a hot enough fire?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Nope! Lump charcoal is what you want. It's all charcoal not fillers. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRon_FOrgerI22 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Can you put in a website that sells that kind of charcoal. cause i would like to order it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 You usually can get it where they sell the briquettes. If not there, the stores that sell BBQ's might have a better selection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRon_FOrgerI22 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 ok but do u kno a website that sells em Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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