what about anvils ?

[ceas65]

hi folks,

 

new here and new to smithing, but it's been in the back of my mind for years ( no i'm not a kid... so they tell me! ) i'm well into my 40's and just getting started. I've got a gas fitter collecting parts for the forge, a more experienced smith who is willing to give me lessons, and advice ( even lined me up with an antique hand blower for the new forge ) and within hours of looking I have a 150 - 200# anvil lined up at a good price.

 

Here's the 100 dollar question .... what am I looking for in an anvil ! condition is one thing , and ring is another i'm told ... but then what ?

 

looking forward to learning with ya'll and after just one week of ALOT of searching, watching and reading ... i think i'm heading in the right direction !

 

any advice or input would be much appreciated ... hammer on ! 

 

Bill

[Thomas Dean]

The ring is not an indicator of a good anvil.....you want REBOUND.  Fisher's, Vulcan's, and other cast iron anvil will have little or no ring and they are good anvils...more especially the Fisher.

Check for cracks in the face, the fewer chips on the edges the better, rebound of 80% or better is great. Use a hammer and tap over the entire surface of the face and LISTEN for any thunks= thunks are indications of the face delaminating from the body.

 

BTW, HOWDY from East TEXAS!! and welcome to IFI.  Update your profile and list your location. Can help us possibly put you in touch with others in your area that are likeminded and also a heads up of toys that may come up close to you. Enjoy the journey!

[VaughnT]

Ring and condition are the top two things you need to worry about.  Brand name is important only in that it tells you that you've got a good anvil and not a cast-iron jalopy that's not worth a dollar.  Look for Trenton, Fisher, Vulcan, Wright, Wilkinson, Budden, etc.  Basically, any of the anvils listed in the "by brand" section of IFI will do you proud.

 

The closer to new the anvil looks, the higher the value.  I don't understand guys complaining about paying over $2/lb for a anvil, like that's some magic number.  A brand-new anvil is going to cost you at least $5/lb, plus shipping, so don't feel like you got gipped if you get close to that.  Of course, if the anvil's been beaten like a redheaded stepchild, you don't want to be paying as-new prices

 

Remember, it's a tool that requires no real maintenance.  No oil changes every 5000 miles.  No belts, hoses, gears to replace.  Nothing except that you not bang on it with a sledge.  In two years, when you're tired of forging, you can sell it for 90% of what you paid.  My main anvil was cast in 1882 and is every bit as serviceable today as it was then.  Think about that for a minute.  Yea, it's got some chipped edges, but that's it.  Over a hundred years of working and it's only got cosmetic wear.  Can't say that about a twenty year old drill press or a ten year old car!

 

Oh, and don't buy a farrier's anvil if you aren't making horse shoes.  They are horrible creations, imo, only suited to that one task.

[ThomasPowers]

First of all WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU IN?   Makes a difference in the anvil breeds you may run across.

 

As mentioned:  Anvils that *should* ring---should ring.  If they don't there is a hidden problem---usually face delamination going on, sometimes a crack in the body.

Anvils that shouldn't ring *shouldn't*:  In the USA they are mainly Fishers and the lower grade Vulcan. (very handy to have a quiet anvil if you are in the city or suburbs...)

 

However a good ringing anvil can be mounted so it doesn't ring.

 

Basically it's learning what brands are good and which ring and which don't---and don't confuse Arm & Hammer, (Logo stamped into the side of the anvil)  With Vulcan, (Logo cast proud of the side of the anvil).

 

Vist over at anvilfire.com and read up on the ball bearing test as probably they best test for rebound you will find that is simple and easy to judge.

 

Note too that anvils are often compared by price per pound and English anvils were generally stamped in the CWT system:  leftmost digit x 112 pounds + middle digit [0-3] x 28 pounds + rightmost digit [0-27]  but American anvils are usually stamped in pounds.  Now it gets complex as many sellers don't know this or get the details mixed up--- US$222 for an anvil marked 111 is a much better deal for an English anvil at 141 pounds than an American anvil at 111 pounds.  On the other hand I've had folks try to sell me American anvils claining English weight!

 

However the only "true"weight is one done on a certified scale; though most stamped weights are close. NEVER TAKE THE SELLER"S ESTIMATE ON WEIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(I've seen many a time they were often 50% or more off---sometimes 300% off!)

 

Heavily Damaged anvils take a massive cut in price:  I picked up a very nice face and fair horn'd anvil missing it's heel for US$40; unbroken it would have been closer to US$200.

 

Beware of nice flat shiney ground or milled faces!  The hardened faceplate on anvils is of limited thickness and grinding them or milling them can make the anvil almost worthless for a smith.  Smooth is more important than *flat* and a sway in the face can be a handy tool---especially for knifemaking where a slight sway aids straightening a lot!  BTW always tell a seller of a ground or milled anvil that that reduces the value---lets stamp this atrocity out!  Tell them it's like grinding the tread of your tires down to make them look pretty---cuts the lifespan of them!

 

Unless the face is like the surface of the moon, (and that is a warning sign that it may have been softened in a fire), condensation pitting will polish out with use---scale is an abrasive after all.

[ceas65]

great info folks , much appreciated .... tell me more ..... < drowning man with a thirst for knowledge !

[ThomasPowers]

OK, more UK anvils and fewer USA anvils in your area.  Peter Wright and Mousehole are the two heavy hitters for the UK anvils though Postman has identified over 200 anvil makers in the UK over time.  Note that the Mousehole anvils tend to be squatter looking with fat waists---a good thing for heavy work!  Bigger sweet spot.  Smallish anvils with short horns and small hardy holes and no pritchel may date from colonial times (sometimes a pritchel may be retrofitted using a drill)  Same rebound tests apply.  You may also see some Brooks cast *STEEL* anvils; good anvils, loud ring.  In fact most of the anvils you see up there should ring when not mounted hard to a stump/base.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Bill, glad to have you. I think the basics have been covered pretty well, I only have a little to add. Soderfors anvils are as good as anvils get. They're cast steel Swedish anvils with faces so hard they tend to have chipped edges. Kohlswa are cast Swedish anvils as well but there was a period where the heat treat wasn't as good as it should've been.

 

The real tip is to get yourself hooked up with the local blacksmithing organization, you'll learn more in a few hours with an experienced smith than you will in days or weeks teaching yourself. I know you have a mentor now and that's excellent but it's even better if there are a bunch of you. The more contacts the more knowledge at your disposal, more tools, equipment and materials. This IS one of those rare situations where more actually IS better. <grin>

 

Frosty The Lucky.