Crazy Ivan Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So at work today, I had a die break in the ironworker turret press. It was no longer useable so I brought it home with me. My question is does anyone know what type of tool steel they are generally (and I say generally because I'm sure there are a few variations depending on maker/intended purpose). I asked the boss and he said he did not have a part number or info on a manufacturer for this specific die so I am left to speculation. The die is used on mild steel and stainless steel. I searched the web for possibilities but came up with nothing useful. It is the sleeve for a 7/16 punch and weighs about 1 1/2 LB give or take a few ounces. I took it home hoping it is something that can be useful for knife making though if I did try to make a knife, I would have to forge weld it into a billet because it is tubular or cut one side to open and flatten it. I am guessing it may have a bit of chromium in it which would make it difficult to weld but either way I figured I would ask here while I did some more investigating. Sorry about not having much more info about it, I'm pretty much in the blind on this one. If all else fails, I'll just do all the tests I can think of on it and make an "educated" guess. Thanks. -Crazy Ivan P.S. I know I can just order known steel and work with that but I hate seeing things go to waste so I figured it may be worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vapremac Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 The Cleveland steel tool website might be helpful. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Well, after 2 more hours of searching I found the possibility that they could be D2 or A2 tool steel. That was not listed specifically for this machine but at least its a start. Only problem is, after reading about the narrow temperature margins for forging and ramp/soak for proper heat treating and air quenching it does not sound like anything I have the knowledge to tackle. Achievable temper results can yield anywhere for RC 62-32 for A2 and RC 64-40 (depending on temperature). I will keep searching and hope to find other possibilities. I may read up as much as possible about these steels and try forging it out and see what happens, but I don't have high hopes for success. In the off chance I do successfully forge something out, I will send it out to be hardened and tempered properly. Here comes an expensive learning experience...at least the material was free haha. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vapremac Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Crazy Ivan, I'd be very interested in hearing how it forges.Keep me updated as you move along with it. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I was told by a salesman from Cleveland punch and die that most punches and dies are S5 tool steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 I was told by a salesman from Cleveland punch and die that most punches and dies are S5 tool steel. Thats more what I was thinking. Thanks for confirming that possibility. Cleveland seems to make a lot of the punches in circulation today so that is also something i will look into. S5 seems like a much more workable alloy than A2 or D2 from what I gather and the hardness still seems suitable for a blade (correct me if I'm wrong please). -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Crazy Ivan, I'd be very interested in hearing how it forges.Keep me updated as you move along with it. William I'll try to post progress on this thread about my results as well as the (most) likely alloy I find I am dealing with here. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 When using junk steel you need enough of the same stuff so that you can use the research and development of your heat treament multiple times. You have already spent more time or (time = money) on this 1.5# scrap than if you were to buy something good. I doubt that a reputable heat treater would work it as an unknown. I understand the I don't want to throw out good steel thinking, but it would likely be better to make items that you are not going to harden out of small lots of scrap. Of course you could come out fine with this and it is your time so have fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 I found out that the die is definitely A2 tool steel. I found an old order form behind the turret punch today that specified A2 as the steel used for its specific dies. Now to read up as much as I can and give it a go. I decided to cut it with an abrasive wheel and fold it open to get the process started. Reading tonight and starting experimenting with it tomorrow. I'm pretty exited to see how it forges. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Keep it hot, and don't work it cold. When I made die sets I usually used D2. I have used A2 for corking machine jaws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 thee are a few tricks to working air hardening steels. ONE If you are forging under hardening temp, never let it get hotter than that at. ever, TWO If you do let it get hotter then you may never allow it to get under the hardening temp untill you are finished, or it will shatter. THREE I hope you have good forging skills, and belts for grinding FOUR if you ignore warnings one and two, there will be no chance at worring about number three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted April 13, 2014 Author Share Posted April 13, 2014 thee are a few tricks to working air hardening steels. ONE If you are forging under hardening temp, never let it get hotter than that at. ever, TWO If you do let it get hotter then you may never allow it to get under the hardening temp untill you are finished, or it will shatter. THREE I hope you have good forging skills, and belts for grinding FOUR if you ignore warnings one and two, there will be no chance at worring about number three. Warnings noted. Thanks. So I got started working it today. Cut into it with an abrasive wheel (its hollow) to open it up. Heated it up slowly and as evenly as possible and started working it open. After it was opened up I drew it down and flattened it out some. I found it quite nice to forge to my surprise. It was fairly responsive to normal hammer blows and not as stubborn as I has expected. I have other things to work on today so flattening it out is all I plan on doing to it for now. Hopefully I'll have a concrete plan for what to make out of it by next weekend. Right now it is about 4" long 2.5" wide and 5/16" thick. I'm leaning towards making a skinning knife out of it but am open to suggestions if you got em. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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