Fe-Wood Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've been making and offering for sale the display racks for my work. What do you guys do? So far I've been putting things on consignment and I am looking for creative ways to get shop owners to buy my work outright like offering a free display rack if they purchase so many pieces at once. I'm talking about items that retail for $30.00 to $500.00. How do you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The arrangement that I had with an acquaintance was that I would lend him a display box with my logo on it, under the understanding that it would only be used for my items, and returned if and when he no longer used it to display my items. Well, that did not last long, other people's items ended up in my display, and when he closed his store the display box was not returned. I would have to say that once you provide displays to a merchant, the agreement on how it will be used is limited to the merchant's memory, and the merchant's honesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 David, That is exactly the kind of thing I'm worried about. Unless the merchant is honest AND has a good memory once you leave it with them, it becomes part of the store fixtures. Sorry it didn't work out for you- I'm looking for creative ways to work with what will happen naturally, making it good deal for all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windancer Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 There is a local antique mall here that has a booth of mostly blacksmith tools. The booth holders there take turns working the counter and trying to reduce pilferage. I spent some time talking to one of the folks at length. Turns out that they volunteer to work the counter and that all of them do NOT do so. Also turn out that a smallish display counter of my blacksmith stuff is $60 per month, total cost. I must supply the display and the lock and leave an extra key in the store so the display can be opened for handling and selling items. Each item must be tagged with price and seller ID. When an item is sold they take the money, keep the tag, and log it into the sales register in ink. You can stop in whenever they are open to add/subtract items. Didn't ask but suspect they do a monthly accounting for folks to collect their money. Easy, simple, very reasonable cost and procedures. You might just stop in at a shop where you think you may be able to sell your stuff and have a chat. I would never leave things anywhere for any reason on consignment. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Oral contracts are just as good as the paper they are written on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 Thomas, even a solid paper contract, well written and with the best intentions can fall pray to convenience and the heat of the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Yup; but *many* times it will be enough to "remind them" and it sure looks good in small claims court! As is varnishing on a label stating "property of XYZ loaned to GHI" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I have had stuff in quite a few over the years, some are good, some not so good. Best ones are artist/owner operated, but the thing is, noone will ever treat your work as precious as you do . I think you need to go with your gut on this one, and leave a display with implicit instructions and also your branding all over the thing, I mean, all over so it can't be covered up, big logo etc, but of course in a very tasteful aesthetic way, so at least if it is eventually used, you've got free advertizing!! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 12, 2013 Author Share Posted October 12, 2013 I just got back from leave a heap of stuff at a small art dealers shop in a small seasonal town. The shop has a great reputation. We'll see how it goes. What I did for the display this time is offer it as a for sale piece as well as a way to show my work. Another aspect I'm considering is when dealers want to have my work on consignment AND take more than 25-30% is tell them they have to buy it outright or the deal is only 25% commision. Anybody tried that? Dave, do you sell your work in galleries? I find that more often than not, they want bigger ticket items only on consignment. Smaller stuff with a smaller price tag works better... Colleen, Gut feelings always play into all this stuff. We went to five shops today, of witch I only considered putting my work in 2 with the possibility of trying to work commissions from the 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Peter, that kind of negotiation might work, I would think that it would be a great bargaining tool to get a shop to buy outright if they were given a good rate. around here the normal rate of SOR or consignment varies between 50% and 20% The higher rate being the norm for most galleries, or sculpture shows, unless of course they are non profit or artist run then the rate is usually around 30% give or take. One of the shops I deal with buys my work outright, but her rate is 50%. I don't mind this as she has a really nice shop, with real quality items in it, and she buys in bulk so it works for me. The other shop has a rate of 40% but it's SOR (sale or return... consignment) there, but I also like selling there as they pay monthly and are really super organized about it. I hate when putting work in a shop and it's not taken care of or they take ages to pay. Dave, all of my larger work is out on Consignment... over here that is just how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I do consignment but its a pain. Mostly because the upkeep of the relationship is no fun and the shop owner is no way invested in their inventory. Everyone has to start somewhere but I would be hesitant to build a display in a consignment scenario. That problem gets deeper because why would the shop owner take the time to display your work properly if they don't have anything into the deal. Win win for someone, not you. If the shop owner is a pro, your work is good and fairly priced (they can make 50%) try to take the hard line and make them buy it. If they are on the fence give them a 75% buyback credit into future work. If you know or trust the owners, by all means leave some work, I at least like to keep that situation fairly local. Artist owned galleries are nice in that they know what it's like, but if they get a good serious big ticket buyer in, whose work are they going to guide them towards? Pretty much the one they get all of the $$ from and your work gets to decorate their space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 All the shops I have dealt with so far, all of 6 mind you, only 1 has bought the work outright. They will do a 50% mark up. I'm fine with that because they have put up money to have it. The rest sell on consignment. Its either consignment or no deal. One of the shops takes 40% commission, the rest take between 30 and 35%. I'm leaning towards saying if they want to have my work on consignment I will give them 30%. My reasoning is as nuge said, they are not invested in selling the work, at least not as much as if they have bought it to resell. I have gone ahead and made a couple displays for my work for 2 reasons, 1 is because I want it displayed well. The other is because I made the display as a salable item so it will become inventory and have tracking. I also agree that keeping consignment local is important. A friend had a piece in a gallery about 4 hours drive from home and the shop closed, kept the work and never paid for it. I think it was about a month before she found out about it. Just starting to sell my work though galleries makes it hard to negotiate that type of term. Even though they all love my work, I don't have the track record to be to demanding... Or should I stick to my guns? There also seems to be a lot of good work out there with not so many places to show it. Galleries are struggling... At least thats the line.... Thanks for all the input! It really helps to know what others are doing and how well it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuge Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 I do cringe when I see how my work is displayed in some shops and totally understand making displays. I want them to buy those too but if it helps sell the work you gotta do what you need to do, I may need to rethink my strategy especially in long term relationships. As far as consignment % I have never run into anything less than 60/40 (artist favor) and typically its 50/50. Does this matter? I mean, your price is what it is, do we even need to know? I heard a story about a gallery in Aspen that was selling work, shipping it to New York instead of to the client, and selling again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 My concern about mark up percentage is that, say you are selling at one store with a 30% mark up and in the next town the merchant is putting a 50% mark up on your work. Someone may have issue with that. I also want to know what they intend on selling work for because if they mark it up 100%, that means I'm not asking what the market will bare. This comes to the perceived value vs. cost to make value. I know all the merchants I deal with have asked me not to sell my work to the public at my wholesale price, which is the "cost to make" price. I've been thinking about putting a suggested retail price on work and let them sort out how they want to price it. I can understand now why big manufactures use that kind of price structure. I can say that all the merchants I have dealt with so far like to have a clear and well thought out pricing and display package. It makes it easier to bring in new work. In the end we are all looking for the same thing, work that sells well with a good profit. I definitely want to check on stores that have my work on consignment to be sure they are displaying it well and taking care of it. If not, I will remove it from their store. I'm not interested in "filling the shelves" with work they can't sell. This brings me to my next question-How long should a piece be left in a store before it becomes stale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Nuge, I think the percentage does matter if you want to keep your pricing even across the board- ie, i sell in two shops, and online and at markets and craft fairs and also at sculpture shows. When I'm doing multiple items, such as the large snowdrop sculptures I make, they are all slightly different, but they are all the same iykwim, Similarly for anything I sell like hooks or fruit bowls etc . I want to make sure that the person that buys one at a sculpture show pays the same price as the one for sale in the shop. Therefore, I have taken my price (cost which includes my overheads/wage/profit) and then doubled that to get my retail price, which is the part which will be eaten up by the commission rate... The less percentage they take, the more for me... I still get my price I need to get to survive and prosper, but I also get a little more profit on top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 cross post there, Peter! In the past I have left stuff in a shop for over a year! I wouldn't recommend leaving it that long though!! One of the shops that sells my work sends me a monthly sales stream. Lets me know what I've sold so I can restock, she is awesome and organized and pays end of the month. I don't even really need to check in, she lets me know. Work that has been there for over 6 months I might take away again, depending on the season, as things like fire pokers sell well in autumn, winter but not so well in summer so it depends what it is and what time of year. If stuff is getting dusty on a shelf, it doesn't look good, so take it away! The buying shop I check after a few weeks, then i usually leave it a few months, send her an email to see what she needs. It is a very as and when arrangement also depending on the season. Right now am busy stocking them for the Christmas period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Ah, yes, Christmas. Having spent the summer selling at fairs and local markets, with winter coming its time to move inside. I don't really have any seasonal stuff yet but that is a good point Colleen. I think it is important to keep the work fresh and new even if it means keeping it moving more than one would like. As I have said, I'm new to this part so it will be interesting to see how this all works out in my little corner of gods country! Thanks for all the input! I'd love to hear what others have to say on this subject.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Woolsey Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I just read through this thread and there is a lot of good advice. Moving from a craft to a fine Artist brings some challenges. The fine art market has as large a variety of sales locations and owners and the quality varies greatly. The craftier locations tend to field patrons who are decorating as opposed to making a connection to the work and eventually to the Artist. These folks often become repeat buyers and sometimes friends.Those kind of things are difficult to cultivate at an antique mall. Make sure you determine the value of your work and stick with it. If your work is at a $500 price point it should be the same price to a gallery or to your neighbor or craigslist. You don't want to undercut your galleries but more importantly you don't want to devalue your work! People purchasing fine art are making an investment in you and your work. You will find out soon enough what the market will bear. Do not let folks discount the asking price unless they are making multiple purchases at the same time. I don't know that I really profit in the art galleries but it gives you street cred and helps elevate the value of all the work you do. Good luck and enjoy the journey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 This may be too amateur for what you want but the way I display my work at stalls & when I leave work at shops on a sale or return basis is to fix it to a block of oak. Each block varies in size but are roughly 8"w X 8"d X 12"h. People LOVE the displays & I even get people asking me to make them up blocks as decorative pieces or for a function they have in mind. The beauty of it is I get the oak for £1 a length & the lengths go up to 8 foot so I get plenty of display blocks out of each length. With a chainsaw & an electric plain, an electric sander & some finishing wax it literally takes minutes to make them & it almost doesn't matter whether you get it back or not because it's virtually free in the first place. I get the oak from a tree surgeon/timber framer/woodsman but some local timber suppliers also do offcuts, maybe you could find somewhere similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted October 18, 2013 Author Share Posted October 18, 2013 You make some great points Johnny. Building a reputation is what it is all about. Its about just showing up and being consistent. I'm living in a new area, its ben very interesting watching no's turn into yeses as people have become more familiar with me and my work. Joel, Nice display! That works super well for what you are selling! I think I will give that a try. I've been thinking about wall hung displays but wall space is often at a premium. Have you thought about putting your touch mark on the wood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel OF Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 Joel, Nice display! That works super well for what you are selling! I think I will give that a try. I've been thinking about wall hung displays but wall space is often at a premium. Have you thought about putting your touch mark on the wood? Cheers. I don't have a touchmark yet as I've only been smithing properly since June but it's not a bad idea for when I do have one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhartironwerks Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I have to agree w/Coleen as it's a gut feeling as well as a percentage take. The knife shop that represents my knives takes 25%. I consider that more than fair as they have all the advertising expense and are more than willing to display the blades as suggested. I couldn't make a living this way, but am happy to sell and bring home some $. Also, I occasionally stop by there and have a beer after work and bs. It's all good! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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