Tire Hammer - Welding Advice

[danguite]

I've been collecting parts for a tire hammer for a couple months now and I'm just about ready to start the initial assembly. I have a Lincoln AC225 stick welder and I'm not too shabby with it and have a buddy who is also fairly good with a stick welder.

I'm looking for advice on how to proceed. I've bought the plans and I'm following them exactly for sizes, etc but I'm wondering what type of rod to use and what voltage to set the welder to.

Also if anyone has advice for ensuring the large peices are set and stay at 90 degree angles, etc it would be very appreciated.

[DSW]

I haven't looked over the plans, but my guess is chances are most of the welds can be done with just about any rod as long as you can do decent quality welds. Saying that, my 1st recommendation would be the to use the rod you are most comfortable with and can do the best job. I wouldn't recommend using an unfamiliar rod if you can make decent welds with something else.

 

 

Having said that my personal 1st choice would be to use a fresh container of  7018AC.  7018 is a medium strength rod with good ductility under shock. It's one of the reasons it's usually the minimum suggested for "code" based welding applications like bridges and so on. However 7018 does have some issues. Many have problem running 7018 if the rods are old or have gotten "damp" from absorbing moisture from the air due to poor storage conditions. Also not all 7018 is created equal. AC stick welders don't always run "standard" 7018 well. 7018Ac is designed to run better on AC based stick machines.

 

7014 would be my 2nd choice. It's not quite as strong and ductile as 7018, but it doesn't have the storage and moisture issues 7018 does. It's a very good choice for newer welders because it's a drag rod and it's easy to make decent welds with it. Like 7018, it will usually tell you when you have the settings and all correct because the slag just peals up or falls off behind you. If you are beating the welds to remove slag, chances are your welds need work and you need to tweak your settings etc. 7024 is an even easier rod to use, but it isn't always available, and it's a flat or horizontal fillet rod only, so you can't do vertical or overhead welds with it.

 

Next choice would be 6013. It's not as strong or ductile as 7014 though. Also while it's a drag rod, many people have issues with slag inclusions running this rod. I'm personally not a huge fan of it, but if you can do good welds, it would certainly do the job if you do your part. I know one welder in the UK who does pressure quality pipe welds using 6013.

 

6011. Probably the last on the list. Penetration is great and it will weld thru rust and paint better than any of the others, but strength and ductility are lowest on the list. Also many people have trouble doing decent welds using 6011. They often have issues like cold lap and undercutting with it. Chances are with code quality welds, this rod would still do an adequate jobs.

 

 

 

 

Amperage ( not voltage, you can't set the voltage on an AC stick machine), would be determined by rod type and size chosen. My guess is this project can be done with either 3/32" or 1/8" rods. Again I'd base my choice on skill level more than anything else. Many times I find newer welders have a slightly easier time using smaller electrodes. This allows them a bit more control than with larger electrodes because they aren't laying down as much material in one shot. Most packages of rods list the amp range for the given size. I'd suggest using the middle setting, or higher. Most new welders tend to want to weld too cold. I'd rather see a fair weld with too much heat than a fair weld with not enough heat.

 

We usually have our new students run 1/8" 7018 and 7014 at around 125 amps in flat. For out of position welds, it's somewhat up to how the welder likes to run things. Some tend to better with more amps, some better with a few less. Rough numbers off my head for 3/32" 7018/7014 would be around 85-95 amps. Note that different rods from different companies often my run at different amps. Lincoln sells about 8 to 10 different "flavors of 7018, and the suggested amp ranges changes slightly from one to another, so be sure to check and see what the manufacturer suggests.

 

 

Warpage is a "science" all it's own. Keep in mind steel will always pull towards the weld when warping. Plan you welds accordingly. Also keep weld order in mind. If you have to weld around a 45 deg angle with square tube, if you weld one side, then the other, the 90 deg angle may stay straight, but the tube will want to twist to the side. If you weld the inside corner 1st, the tube will want to pull in so the angle is less than 90, and if you weld the outside corner, the corner will want to open out past 90 deg. Clamping things tight or using temporary restraints can help limit warping, but it will not eliminate it. Adding a bit of positive "lean" can be used so that when things warp, the warpage pulls them straight again. Also if you gap slightly, that gap will often allow you to force things back to straight, so you can weld the opposite joint and lock things in straight. How much correction you need is based on the material, amount of weld laid down, and experience. Guys that have done a lot of this sort of get a "feel" how much "out of wack" to make things so they pull straight when done.

 

 

Hope this held some, Doug.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I like 7018 due to the fact it runs so smooth on DC reverse polarity. IIRC the AC225 is AC only, so I would look at 6011.  Weld preps are a must for maximum strength. If the sections are thick grind a bevel on them, or if they are thinner an air gap will also do the job. The main thing is to get maximum penetration.  Watch for undercutting at the edges of the welds which can propagate cracks.

 

One way to do this project would be to sign up for a night course in the welding dept of your local community college, and use their equipment under the supervision of the instructor.

[macbruce]

Use 7018 on critical structural joints and dies, 1/8 or 5/32'' rod. You can get away with ''farmer rod '' on the rest; 6013, 6011 or 7014. Keeping your work strait is tricky as you well know because welds always pull.  Welding say the anvil and the post counterpart true to one another requires  patience and skill. I always do the collumn first, then the anvil. The collumn being a hollow (sq tube I assume)is more likely to give you trouble. I stand the collumn on the base, check it for 90* and tack so that it can be trued the easy way, that is by rocking back against the tack creating an opening  I can slip a piece of shim into (paper even works). Tack it up well, then weld it up front to back, side to side. After the first pass re check it and do your other passes as needed. Let it cool completely and check it again.....When you discover it's out of wack, don't freak out, sometimes an extra bead put on the side you want it to lean to does the trick or if you know about flame straitening it's easily done with a torch.

I use a digital level allot when building hammer frames. Even if the base plate isn't 100% level I can zero/calibrate the DL to the plate and get perfect 90's every time plus it reads out to one tenth of one degree and that is huge........Mine cost $120 or so 10 years ago but you needen't spend that much....http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=digital%20level&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CGMQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sears.com%2Fsearch%3Dcraftsman%2520digital%2520torpedo%2520level&ei=Rn8NUqeDHYiviQLBkoCYCg&usg=AFQjCNFrmSKKqsjaoFBhY0CKdel0d9sSiA

 

If you do use a common level make darn shure the base plate LEVEL before fabbing, have fun...... B)

[Dodge]

Not all levels are created equal. Make sure your level is level! Not all levels pass the test; even expensive ones. They get banged around; they get dropped; they missed that final QA check at the factory. It happens. I used to be the ISO9000 inspector for our measuring tools in our shop and it was amazing how many levels come out of the box un true.

To check:

Put your level on a flat surface (preferably level but if its off a little its ok) Note where the bubble lies in relation to the reference lines on the bubble tube. Now turn the level around 180º on the same spot. Does the bubble fall in the same spot? Then you have a true level. If not you can still use it but you have to compensate for the difference by making sure the bubble is "off" the same amount in opposite directions when checking by turning the level 180º. Same thing applies for checking vertically as horizontal.

[NeatGuy]

As a fabricator I find that it is a common belief that overkill is a good way to overcome lack of understanding of the problem. Less weld equates to less distortion. While it is important to make good solid welds; over welding can make a weldment un-necessarily strong while distorting your weldment and make nearly impossible to repair. 3" of 1/4" fillet weld is roughly equivalent to a 3/4 a325 structural bolt. There are several techniques that you can use to prevent or compensate for distortion some have already been mentioned by DSW.

 

Distortion control is all about balancing of forces created by weld shrinkage.

 

Backstep stitch weld when possible. Backstep skipstep is even better.

When dealing with HSS always weld too the centre, this will keep the weld shrinkage forces in balance.

Hss is also difficult to heat straighten (but not impossible) so try to avoid welding along the edges and weld the edges last.

Use bracing and strongbacks when necessary.

Weld opposite side of tacks.

Sometimes peening the weld (especially on plate) will stretch the weld enough to compensate for the shrinkage.

 

No mater what precautions are taken sometimes post weld stress relief or heat straightening must be used.

 

brad

[monstermetal]

We just finished a tire hammer build,   There is nothing tricky about any of the fabrication or welding.   I think all the tips presented above are great

[danguite]

Awesome advice. I'll take some pictures along the way. Something I've noticed while researching this build is that people must get very excited in the middle of the build and stop taking pictures.

Another question I had about the tire hammer build is how the XXX do I make the lead hammer? I can't find anything that explains how to do that part.

Edited August 16, 2013 by Moderator54
language

[Dodge]

I took a slightly different approach on my tire hammer. Rather than weld everything, I used bolts and drilled and tapped holes. I know everyone doesn't have the resources to do it but I did, so I did ;)  (One of the chief reasons to miss that job... if I in deed missed it LOL) Anyway, the main advantage is that any distortion can be corrected with shims during assembly. IIRC, I didn't need any due to careful fitment, tacking and proper welding practices. Just offering an alternative.
Bonus: I can take the hammer entirely apart if need be (Never have needed to, but when I move to that "dream shop" ... :D )

anvil and mast mounting plates



attached to 2.75" thick baseplate



Anvil and mast in place

 

[monstermetal]

Thats pretty cool.    I think having the anvil removable is a great thing for most folks so the hammer can be moved without heavy equipment.

[kubiack]

Dodge, is you anvil solid or tube?

[Dodge]

Its a composition to be sure, kubiack. IIRC, I started with 18 mild steel plates 8" dia, x 1.25" stacked and welded under a 70k press. That is welded to the round base plate and then I shrouded it with a piece of tapered light pole shaft simply for appearance.  This is topped by a 10" x 5" block cut from 5" plate. That drilled and tapped for die mounting and then was beveled heavily ( 3/4" iirc) before welding Not solid but as close as I could get with available resources :)

[Dodge]

Just noticed the 5 x 5 is not in that picture but somewhere else in this forum there is a pic :D

[danguite]

Anyone have advice for pouring the ram and counterweight?

[DSW]

Again, I'm unfamiliar with the actual instructions on this unit. I assume from your comment you are supposed to fill the ram and counterweight with concrete thinking back to the one I did read the instructions for awhile back. I can give you some pointers on concrete having worked with it for years.

 

 

Excess water in concrete mixes tends to promote shrinkage and weaken the mix past a certain point. Typical bag mixes like you buy at Home Depot/Lowes have a few unique properties that batched concrete from ready mix companies usually don't exhibit. They load up the bag mixes with chemicals that are referred to as water reducers. This tends to make bag mixes behave "strangely". You want to mix them up on the dry side. Then the more you "work" or vibrate the mix, the wetter it becomes. If I have to pour this stuff, I mix it up just to the point it gets damp, but no more on average. Then when I consolidate the concrete, it will "flow". I can usually tell if I'm mixing in a wheelbarrow by taking my trowel and slapping the surface 10 or 12 times and trying to "pump" the water to the surface. If it doesn't behave the way I like, I add just a touch more water, say less than a quart at at time until it acts the way I need it to. You will find these mixes even mixed almost to the point of being dry and crumbly, will "bleed" water like crazy after you place and vibrate them. Off the top of my head I want to say I use about 1-2 gallons of water per bag. I usually have a 1 gallon bucket and some quart gatorade containers and measure out the 1st bag or so until I get the mix right. Then I know exactly how much to dump in for each bag exactly.

 

To consolidate the concrete when it seams to be too "dry", there are several things you can do. I'll assume you don't have or have access to a concrete vibrator, but if you do, that would be my 1st choice. 2nd choice would be a length of rebar the length of your column plus 12 to 18". You "rod" the concrete. This means you stick the rod in the crete and pump it up and down like a butter churn, moving around the column. This wets the mix and gets rid of air pockets. You can also tap on the outside of the column with a hammer to help, and a palm sander  held against the outside will also vibrate the exterior. We'd frequently use the hammer and sander "trick" on step forms to get really stiff crete to wet out and flow better to fill out complicated bullnose forms.

 

 

If you mix your own, go with the largest aggregate you reasonably can. It's more of a pain to consolidate, but the concrete gets a majority of it's strength from the aggregate. If you think of it this way, if you take a jar of big rocks, a jar or small rocks and a jar or sand, you can fit the most in when you start out with the jar or big rocks and fill the small spaces in with small rocks, followed by filling those spaces with sand. Here you will have to use more water than with premixed bag crete.  Again I'd manage water similar to how I described the bag mix above to keep water down.

 

After rodding you will have a "soup" that comes up to the surface. This will be the weakest part of the mix because it doesn't have aggregate and the water to cement ratio is super high. one "trick is to leave some room and add a bit of dry mix on top and use the excess water up that way. You need to make sure it wets out 100% though. 2nd option is to pull out all that "cream" and keep putting in more solid crete.

 

I doubt you will order ready mix for this, so I'll leave out tricks for ordering this for the most part. If you do order, you can order it with a "tight" slump, like a 2-3, and have them add Super P on site. This wets up the crete like you added a ton of water, but the "wetness" only lasts 30 minutes or so and then it "snaps" back to it's original stiffness. We used to use this regularly to allow us to place the crete easily, and yet not have it "soupy" when we'd go to stamp it. It works great for getting nice almost self leveling floors.

 

 

One down side of crete is it always shrinks. However they do make high strength nonshrink grouts that are often used under steel columns for support. These grouts are somewhat similar to bag mixes in that the more you work them, the "wetter" they get even though you didn't add any more water. You can take a batch that is so dry it almost crumbles in your hand and turn it to soup just by moving it around with a trowel a lot. These grouts are super strong, but fairly expensive. I'd only think about them if you are talking about 1 or 2 5gallon buckets full. A 5 gal bucket used to run about $100 off the top of my head for the good stuff we'd get from our supplier.

[Robert Yates]

Unless I just read over it and missed it you Need /Should Tack it together First and get the Main body set before welding any weld completely !  it is one of the most looked over things in welding and that is Tacking the project together and squaring things up before you weld any of it solid .

 

Sam  

[danguite]

The ram and the counterweight are listed on the parts list as being made out of lead.  The plans just indicate that they should be poured into the mold.  However, I don't know if I have a way to melt 38 lbs of lead at once.

 

Can the ram being poured in layers or is it best to get the whole amount liquid before pouring?

[Dodge]

As a rule, most things poured liquid or molten are best poured as a whole. Otherwise each pouring sets and the next may or may not bond with the last. This usually isn't necessarily  a problem if the pour is stationary but in the case of a weight that will constantly be jarred from hammering, in my opinion, should be poured as a whole if possible.

[Rich Hale]

Finding a container to hold that much lead is not a tough hunt,,cast iron works well,,,do not use for cooking after.....Heating it is not a tough task either, The p roblem is  handling a container of molten metal safely for the pour. If you spill a wee bit and it hits you anywhere you will likely do the molten metal burn dance...that may directly affect your abiity to safely set the rest of the container down while you get the deep burns tended to. How you lift the container will directly affect the safe handling also,
Simply put research this thoroughly before you decide to take it on. May even wish to melt small amounts of lead and pour into smaller molds so you get the moves and tools sorted out. And by the way, heated lead is even worse for your health than just skin contact. May wish to research that a lot.

[DSW]

Option 2 would be to have several smaller pots all ready to go at once vs just one large pot.

 

I use the bottom part of an old steel O2 cylinder as my large lead pot for smelting down bullet scrap and old lead pipe. It's probably only 5-6" in dia and maybe 6" tall. I know it holds at least 20 lbs of lead and still has a decent reserve to continue melting down more.

[danguite]

I'll be getting the anvil on Tuesday. I had a buddy tell me that before welding it I should heat the end of it. Did anyone else do this with theirs? It is 6.75" solid round.

[jeremy k]

pre-heating before welding - yes!!!

[DSW]

With a mass that heavy some preheat wouldn't hurt. You also want to use enough amps to make sure you get decent penetration into the material. Limiting factor will be the thinner piece however. You need enough amps so you don't get a cold weld on the heavy piece, and not so much that it's not controllable on the thinner material. Usually a good way is to try and keep most of the bead on the heavier piece and "wash" the weld over onto the thinner piece.

 

I can't find my AWS manual  or my Lincoln Electric book at the moment, but 250-400 sticks in my mind as an approximate preheat for heavy material like that depending on the base material alloy. That should prevent the heavy stock from sucking up too much heat and producing a cold weld.  A big propane weed burner is typically used for jobs like this. Depending on the size of the piece your forge may or may not be practical for preheat. Some judicial beveling also wouldn't hurt.

[Jeff Amundson]

I welded mine this summer. 6.75" diameter, 4140. 3/4" base plate. I beveled the anvil and preheated it to 400F. I used 400F and 500F tempilstiks and a weed burner throughout the welding passes. 7018 rod. I haven't completed the hammer yet, so all I can say is it looks good. 

[danguite]

Awesome advice. I'll have to pick up some of those sticks. If anyone needs material this size or bigger, there are two places here in central Wisconsin that have a bunch for sale at .35 to .40 a pound.