Everything Mac Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Hi guys, I've decided I "need" a better belt grinder as the one I have is not the best. I've got time enough to collect suitable materials together - I'd like the majority of it to be made from scrap if possible. I've also got plenty of access to all the tools I could need through my father. We're also good friends with a welding shop. But having never toyed with motors, electricity and moving parts in general I'm a little unsure of where to begin. I think I'd like to do a pulley driven style grinder, are there any downsides to this design? I can't help but think why not buy a pillar drill and rip the parts out of that? I assume there is a reason do not do this? I assume the motor is under powered which would lead to the belt stalling? As such this is why it seems to be the norm to use a minimum of a 2 hp motor... I've heard of using a glass platen? This is the flat part you contact your work piece with right? Can someone explain the use/ fitting of the glass and its benefits over a steel one. I'd need to run this all from a household power supply, am I correct in thinking a single phase motor is the way to go. Do I need any extra gizmos to get it working or is it just a case of plug in a power supply and away I go? Cheers Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 But having never toyed with motors, title="Click to Continue > by Solid Savings">electricity and moving parts in general I'm a little unsure of where to begin You typing this makes me wonder a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 But having never toyed with motors, >electricity and moving parts in general I'm a little unsure of where to begin You typing this makes me wonder a lot! Should I be reading this as the rather snide comment it appears to be? I will gladly turn my hand to anything but I need to at least have a fair idea of what I need to do before I do it. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 I'm looking to build a 2x72 as well. This is a design I'm considering, Then I've also found a lot of good information from the two sites below. All the designs I'm looking at are pulley driven and use a steel platen. If you aren't comfortable working with electricity find someone who is. You don't want to fry yourself or burn down the house. http://www.shankcustomknives.com/homemade-belt-grinder.html http://theknifemaker.com/inf/grinder.html I'll have to research motors, I haven't done so yet. As you mentioned 2 hp on a 220 seems common, but I don't have an extra 220 outlet, so prefer going 110 vs. juggling which my compressor & welder already are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Yeah that's a design I've seen. There is a version of it mounted to a bench. Cheers for links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 As you make progress please update this thread and I'll do the same. It'd be helpful to know what others are using for a motor. Regarding the mobile design, I like having the option to move it around as my garage/shop has limited space. Currently I'm using a 1x30 HF belt grinder. It works okay to make small kitchen knives, but isn't very efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 You'll be waiting a while, I only recently decided to upgrade and I've yet to collect a decent amount of kit for it. I'm hoping I will get lucky with a motor. If not then I will have to order a new one. Though honestly I'm leaning that way regardless. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCROB Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 As you make progress please update this thread and I'll do the same. It'd be helpful to know what others are using for a motor. Regarding the mobile design, I like having the option to move it around as my garage/shop has limited space. Currently I'm using a 1x30 HF belt grinder. It works okay to make small kitchen knives, but isn't very efficient. " you typing this makes me wonder alot" .......nice helpful reply Rich Hale !! why bother for the original poster........... My KMG has a 1.5HP Baldor 3450rpm single pulley, it's my main metal hogger and the 1.5 works perfect to my needs for this part of profiling. They are expensive to fork out the money initially but in my opinion well worth the saving up for.......... my other 2 x 72 is a home-bru 2 wheel upright with a 1.5 hp Baldor 1750rpm........both work great drive wheel and pully diameter will affect your grinding power to some degree........... as for the electrical part of it , it really is quite simple........be more than happy to assist with pictures of grinder setup, wiring drawings / diagrams if you need........hope this helps a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Let me 'splain my post a bit more as it may not be as clear as I thought: When someone says they are not able to do what they are planning on, then how much time do you think I should spend telling them about making this piece of equipment that takes some mechanical skills and a shop with at least more than basic equipment. Id youi have read at least some of my posts and answers i have shared on here youi may feel that I indeed share a lot of information and have since this site began. And I try and gear my offers of help to fit the persons abilities. And I believe I have again done just that. The picture of the grinder appears to be well made and would be an asset to almost any shop. So back to my post: Read this again and tell me..or at least think about this: can this person at this time build a workable grinder? "But having never toyed with motors, electricity and moving parts in general I'm a little unsure of where to begin." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 The one decraven posted looks like a very robust machine and I would like to build one of those....I was following this guy's progress reguarding plans he was going to offer but ran out of patience........ I crusing ebay and saw (sorry can't link) :rolleyes: these units for sale at a starting bid of $750 w/o motor which ain't bad...(google: ted g belt grinder)....http://www.google.com/search?q=ted+g+belt+grinder&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=JM_dUerUKafDigKe8IC4Bw&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=830 Since I'll be starting a job soon where fabbing a sander and then getting to work isn't an option I'm seriously considering on of these.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Whatever I build I'll share measurements and whatever I can. I don't know how to use autocad or any of that, and it's going to be welded together for the most part. I am fortunate that a friend on the other side of town has built a 2x72 for scratch, in a pinch I can go to him for help but shouldn't need to, knock on wood. BCROB, thanks for the motor info! Did some searching online, I see why you said save up. I'm trying to do this for $500 or so. Much more and I'll need to wait a little longer. Any suggestions on things you can scavenge a motor from that would accept a dual pulley? My guess would be air compressors, bench grinders, maybe a clothes dryer motor? Sometimes just putting the word out among friends turns up what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Mullins Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I'm also toying around with the idea of building a 2 x 72 , but may buy something I can use until I save enough to do it properly. What I am seeing is 3 phase motors being much more reasonable in price, but then you need a VFD or converter to use single phase power for it. The VFD will also give you variable speed control but will cost as much or quite a bit more than the motor. That would be my long term goal. I'm leaning toward a 1 1/2 to 2 hp single phase TEFC motor, ~1800 rpm, and a direct drive pulley. I can later change to a step pulley for some speed control. The drive, contact and idler wheels are where I am trying to find the most cost effective route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metal99 Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Whatever I build I'll share measurements and whatever I can. I don't know how to use autocad or any of that, and it's going to be welded together for the most part. I am fortunate that a friend on the other side of town has built a 2x72 for scratch, in a pinch I can go to him for help but shouldn't need to, knock on wood. BCROB, thanks for the motor info! Did some searching online, I see why you said save up. I'm trying to do this for $500 or so. Much more and I'll need to wait a little longer. Any suggestions on things you can scavenge a motor from that would accept a dual pulley? My guess would be air compressors, bench grinders, maybe a clothes dryer motor? Sometimes just putting the word out among friends turns up what you need. Hey man, keep an eye out for a used table saw on a classified website. After I bought my motor I was told about the table saw idea and sure enough. 1.5 horsepower table saw for $50.... I wasn't happy that day lol. As far as the grinder goes it shouldn't be hard at all. I have maybe 45 minutes into mine and its over half way done. I don't have pictures but its not to hard really. Most of the grinders I've seen out there seem a little overkill on the materials. I used square tubing for mine and it seems pretty solid so far. I won't be shooting mine with an '06 so I don't see the need to make it into a tank lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 You can buy a 2x72 Belt Grinder from Grizzly Tools for under $500. It works very well. I don't have one, I have two. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I considered going with the Grizzly, but I'm always looking for an excuse to put my welder to work and I prefer building something when I can vs. buying it. Plus if I buy all the pieces and build it my wife won't have a clue, yeah honey I made it out of scraps! Won't say how much the contact wheel cost...Whereas if I buy the package deal she'll be giving me grief for at least a month even though all the $ came from my smithing work. Those of you who can go out & buy whatever with your wives blessing have my admiration & envy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerald brostek Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 I too have a 2X72 Knife makers grinder from Grizley tools. Have had it for 5 years. A great tool for the money.It has one disadvantage, that being it only runs at one speed, and that is too fast for some work. I reciently coughed up a small fortune and bought a Burr-King with all the attachments. This is a top of the line machine suitable for the professional metal smith, $3,600.00 it has variable speeds and is the best and most usefull tool I own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Let me 'splain my post a bit more as it may not be as clear as I thought: When someone says they are not able to do what they are planning on, then how much time do you think I should spend telling them about making this piece of equipment that takes some mechanical skills and a shop with at least more than basic equipment. Id youi have read at least some of my posts and answers i have shared on here youi may feel that I indeed share a lot of information and have since this site began. And I try and gear my offers of help to fit the persons abilities. And I believe I have again done just that. The picture of the grinder appears to be well made and would be an asset to almost any shop. So back to my post: Read this again and tell me..or at least think about this: can this person at this time build a workable grinder? "But having never toyed with motors, electricity and moving parts in general I'm a little unsure of where to begin." Clearly we have differing ideas of the meaning of "unsure where to begin" you've obviously read it as incapable. I simply wanted pointing in the right direction. Poor choice of wording on my part perhaps. Tell me Rich, is there anything you have never done before that you wanted to attempt but felt you couldn't without at least a lesson or two... Driving a car for example? I do wonder if that is the way you feel, why you bothered wasting your time replying at all? I'm actually a little insulted if I'm honest. I don't want to be but that's the way it is. As it stands I have a much better idea of the kind of motor to look out for. Large contact wheels are expensive over here in the uk so I will probably not bother and stick to a basic platen. It's been suggested that you can use skateboard wheels though they can melt. A risky if cheap option I guess. Do any if you guys use them? There is a chap over hear that makes a kmg clone who sells the wheels I'd need but they are pricey. I'll be buying a tracking wheel from him though at the very least as I can't find them anywhere else. The plan is still to use a pulley driven system with the motor mounted beneath my bench to save some space. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Whatever I build I'll share measurements and whatever I can. I don't know how to use autocad or any of that, and it's going to be welded together for the most part. I am fortunate that a friend on the other side of town has built a 2x72 for scratch, in a pinch I can go to him for help but shouldn't need to, knock on wood. BCROB, thanks for the motor info! Did some searching online, I see why you said save up. I'm trying to do this for $500 or so. Much more and I'll need to wait a little longer. Any suggestions on things you can scavenge a motor from that would accept a dual pulley? My guess would be air compressors, bench grinders, maybe a clothes dryer motor? Sometimes just putting the word out among friends turns up what you need. Compressors seem to be quite a common source of motors. There was a handful at my local scrap yard recently though you can't tell if the motor runs. That's a good tip about the table saws. A very kind gent over here has let me borrow his grinder for a few weeks. It's a three phase 1hp motor running through a vfd which he sourced through work apparently. It runs rather nicely actually. Certainly rips more steel away than my old grinder. But it is an expensive way to go still, he suggested about £400 to do what he's got. The advantage is the speed controller and the ability to run the motor backwards, which is useful for using the slack side apparently. Quite a tidy bit of kit though. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Andy, since uou're in the UK, get onto the British Blades forum. There's plenty of info on grinders there. And skateboard wheels have been proven to work well, see Ali's grinders. But for Prte's sake, get a qualified industrial sparky to give your grinder a once over before you start it, if nothing else. It's be a crying shame to electrocute or injure yourself through lack of knowledge. And fit an emergency stop, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Cheers. I've a post over on there which has been quite helpful as well. And yes, that's a good plan. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Mac, a friend is using roller skate wheels. Thanks for the idea on the skateboard wheels. For a contact wheel I've heard of using a lawnmower wheel, haven't tried it myself. Still in the planning stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I have one option for your contact wheel, BUT it wont last long, and is not pretty: having said that, a friend of mine made his contact wheels from wood. he remakes them as needed, but he rarely uses them prefers flat grinds. Just an option for you, until you sell a few products and save up that money to buy a contact wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilt and Hammer Workshop Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I too have a 2X72 Knife makers grinder from Grizley tools. Have had it for 5 years. A great tool for the money.It has one disadvantage, that being it only runs at one speed, and that is too fast for some work. I reciently coughed up a small fortune and bought a Burr-King with all the attachments. This is a top of the line machine suitable for the professional metal smith, $3,600.00 it has variable speeds and is the best and most usefull tool I own. I'm not an electrician or anything, but wouldn't it be relatively simple procedure to wire up a variable speed switch to the Grizzly to compensate for that issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 If I were to build a belt grinder featuring more than one speed I would use a VFD to convert single phase to 3 Phase power and to control the speed of/with a three phase motor . Either way I have had really good luck shopping for used motors at electrical motor repair shops. If you live in an industrial area or large city there are usually repair shops close by. They frequently have an over supply of electric motors in the HP range that you will be looking for and are usually glad to be see them go out the door. (Their commercial customers want new motors so the used ones tend to accumulate in their shops). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knots Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm not an electrician or anything, but wouldn't it be relatively simple procedure to wire up a variable speed switch to the Grizzly to compensate for that issue? Not that simple. If it were, Grizzley would have already made the conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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