Forklift Fork Anvil Build

[jmccustomknives]

I had promised to put a pic, it's not finished yet I need to get some sanding belts and finish dressing the face.  About 12" were cut off the end of the forks and a little more off what was the back of the fork.  ( I like my bladesmithing anvil to be waste high.)  They were placed back to back and welded then welded on a 2' square plate.  The heavy pieces were welded on the sides shoring up the extremities and adding wieght.  I filled in the gap created with 7018 and finished it off with 309 stainless (it work hardens very well). 

 I did work a blade edge on it and as pleasantly suprised.  The ring is comparable to my RR anvil being somewhat loud but I think it will be easy to quiet the thing down.  It wieghs in close to 300lbs.  It aint pretty, but niether am I. :P

[Nghtmrknife]

Wow that looks pretty awsome. Are you going to be filling the gaps on top or grinding it down. Any way I'm sure it will do the job.

[Mudman]

Very impressive. I would have never thought about configuring the forks that way. Brilliant!

[DanielC]

Pretty much similar to a stake anvil!

[5starhobo (blake)]

looking good but i would fill in those gaps and smooth it out. that affects your work

[tantofolder]

Looking good!! Be sure to post your finished pics.

[jmccustomknives]

I bought some belts for my little belt sander to finish the face, they were on clerance. :rolleyes:   Too bad I forgot what size that I had :o .  I'll get the face dressed, fill in the gaps with silicon ( to dampen the ring) and get it painted. B)   Suprisingly enough the 309 work hardened to about the same rebound, if not more than the base metal. <_<

[SReynolds]

What for steel be the forks? When you torch cut them does that effect the hardness? When you (pre)heat the forks to weld, and then heat them up whilest welding, does that too effect the hardness?  

 

If you turn that steel blue by heating/welding/cutting it, you have lost the hardness, so how you going to harden all this?????

 

Maybe they are simply mild steel? Or spring steel?

 

I work with spring steel and it is quite soft. It is from  heavy duty truck springs. They are 1/2" wide by 1/2" thick and as long as you'd want. It is soft enough to drill and hammering it will dent it easily. But if I heat it to orange and cool it in water, it splits apart like glass. 

[Frosty]

You work with springs and you heat to orange and water quench it? Have you talked to the guys in heat treat department about heat treating spring stock? Spring steels are typically pretty forgiving of mistakes in heat treat but that's just plain abuse or intended to make it fail.

 

Lift forks are pretty forgiving of heat treat mistakes too but what you're doing, or did to spring steel is beyond the pale.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Reading Creek Forger]

I like it! Great innovation and adaptation.

[jmccustomknives]

The forks are 4140, I've worked some on the edge just as a test and was pleasantly suprised with the performance.  4140 will work harden.

[SReynolds]

A master blacksmith of many many years of experience instructed me to heat spring steel to orange and quench in water. I assume he knows as his stuff. He is the master and teaches class. Builds really great tools etc. I suppose he does it correctly and I messed up somehow.

 

I can't work with the stuff no how. Got tons of it and don't know what to do with it. Experimenting is the best teacher.

 

I didn't understand how on the planet one can WELD something like 4140 and have it retain integrity. Same as welding spring steel isn't it? That is how many make nail headers.; Forge from high carbon steel and WELD a handle onto it. When you forge the header (tapered hole) and weld a handle to it, you heat it and remove the temper. How do you regain that temper?

 

Same thing for this home-built anvil. You heat it up by welding it, it is NO longer hard. By work harden, do you mean you don't worry about making it hard again????

[David Gaddis]

We have welded 4140/50 and 5160 a lot years ago. An old friend and neighbor was very familiar with the operations led in aour instructions. Pre-heat until spit would sizzle and run off the item (about 400 degrees F) and commence to weld...properly. Not too much heat yet without being too cold either....as the pre-heating requires different settings than welding cold steel. Keep warm until finished..then air cool...not with air blasts.

 

Everything we worked with doing that was successful. Welding cold sometimes worked and other times did not.

 

The parts we welded were root rakes for large dozers that made contact with strong oak stumps very often. Many of the "tines" or fingers were 1-1/2  to 2 inches thick. When they wore thin we scabbed spring steel to the sides of the fingers. Sometime we used motor grader blades, other time we used large industrial spring material.

 

The idea was to work it hot and let it cool down easy. Welding was not enough heat to get the piece warm enough so the pre-heat allowed the dissimilat metals to work well.

 

 

Carry on

[SReynolds]

cool.

 

thank for that.

[Frosty]

A master blacksmith of many many years of experience instructed me to heat spring steel to orange and quench in water. I assume he knows as his stuff. He is the master and teaches class. Builds really great tools etc. I suppose he does it correctly and I messed up somehow.

 

I can't work with the stuff no how. Got tons of it and don't know what to do with it. Experimenting is the best teacher.

 

I didn't understand how on the planet one can WELD something like 4140 and have it retain integrity. Same as welding spring steel isn't it? That is how many make nail headers.; Forge from high carbon steel and WELD a handle onto it. When you forge the header (tapered hole) and weld a handle to it, you heat it and remove the temper. How do you regain that temper?

 

Same thing for this home-built anvil. You heat it up by welding it, it is NO longer hard. By work harden, do you mean you don't worry about making it hard again????

 

That makes more sense. Judging heat by eye is a thing that takes practice, your eye and my eye don't see color the same. Orange to him isn't going to be the same color to you. Besides variances in eyes, there are a lot of other variables to consider, one of the main ones being light level in the shop, floor color can make a difference, etc.

 

By orange he's probably referring to what was called cherry red. The comparison to cherries dates from more than a century ago when ripe cherries were more red orange than today.

 

I call it watery red because, I used to anyway, be able to see a shifting watery reflection in the steel when it readhed critical temp. My eyes aren't that good anymore so I'm using another method the magnet. Steel looses it's magnetic properties just below critical temp, a magnet won't stick.

 

Depending on how thick the project is determines soak time and makes it much harder hardening something thick. As a rule of thumb soak time is about 1/2 hour per inch. How much temp change is a factor too but I don't recall the numbers. The soak time on a 1" dia. rod is actually 15 mins. you calculate the soak from the surface and a 1" rod's center is 1/2" from each surface.

 

Unless you have an accurate furnace with ramping temperature controls soak time is a problem. Using my forge means exposing the surface to 2,500f at the low end up to 3,000f at the high end. Yeah, 3kf. the hot chamber has a little puddle of molten 3,000f split fire brick for a floor when it's up to temp. I don't harden in this chamber of my forge, I extend the other side to full length and light only one burner.

 

Anyway, assuming you're using a well regulated gasser or are experienced with a solid fuel forge. apply the greatest temp to the thickest part of the piece, knife, heat it with the spine in the hotter part of the fire. thicker needs more soak time and heats slower.

 

I use chevron heat transfer oil as a quenchant and heat treat oil is available pretty commonly. there is an oil company transfer station reasonably close to you, they don't truck product farther than they have to and deliveries are sometimes made at weird hours so they have a tank farms and delivery trucks close. the office at the transfer tank farm has smal quantity products like heat treat and heat transfer oil. Heat transfer oil is used in all kinds of equipment so they'll have plenty on hand.

 

ATF or synthetic hydraulic oils are pretty good quenchants, they're designed to carry heat well and have high flash temperatures. Motor oil work but it's got it's problems, Used motor oil has more health hazards due to contaminants from engine wear and blow by from the rings valves, etc.

 

I preheat my oil to HOT coffee warm and hold the part in the heat a few seconds after the magnet stops sticking and quench. I plunge the entire piece completely below the oil's surface and swirl it slowly to prevent vapor bubbles from insulating little portions of the piece. the fast plunge is to get the piece below the surface and out of the oxygen content of open air.  It's going to flash, a ball of flame WILL blow up out of the container be prepared for it. Once the piece is below the surface it's going to stop  flaring. some processes require only partial immersion be ready for a heck of a fire, once the surface of the oil reaches it's flash temp it's going to start burning and it will be a self supporting fire you will have to smoother to extinguish. Be READY, wear proper PPE!

 

As soon as the piece is quenched shine it up and begin tempering. I heat gently from the thickest section, moving it or my torch to keep the heat even. Watch for the temper colors to run, spring seems to run fast. for a blade I temper the spine to spring, blue and like the edge light straw. This is a progressive temper as it isn't uniform across the entire blade. However, the temper colors run fast so I either have to use a hotter part of the torch flame or settle for a less progressive result. That depends on what it's for.

 

Tempering in the oven is in many ways a better technique, the entire blade will have a uniform hardness and flexibility.

 

All this stuff is covered better by the bladesmith guys in the knife/sword/? section and they have ongoing discussions of these things. I'm NOT a bladesmith guy, though I CAN do the dance. I remember the steps but my timing has gotten wonky with my eyes. <sigh> Getting old beats the alternative.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[SReynolds]

Wow. Way-Cool.Thank-you.

 

The shop class here at the school tempers chisels the students make in the oven. They don't bother to polish and run colors by way of a flame. I would rather see that, but at least they are forging w/high carbon.

[jmccustomknives]

Work hardening and quench hardening are two different things.  In the quench you are creating matensite (hardened steel) it needs to be tempered.  Work hardening takes place when struck with a hammer the grain compresses getting harder.  Since the 309 wasn't hard at all as I hit it with the 24oz hammer I could feel the rebound picking up on each strike.  The first few were dead then the rebound became more pronounced.

Preheating your steel has a tempering effect by keeping martensite from forming in it's fully hard state.  This stuff welded well although if more strength was needed a more precise preheat and a rod like the 309ss would make for a very strong weld.

[Frosty]

Wow. Way-Cool.Thank-you.

 

The shop class here at the school tempers chisels the students make in the oven. They don't bother to polish and run colors by way of a flame. I would rather see that, but at least they are forging w/high carbon.

 

You're very welcome, I'm sorry if I was abrupt with my first reply. We get a lot of kids asking questions based on video games and sometimes I should just keep quiet.

 

You don't need to shine up the steel if you oven temper, you set your target temp/temper with the oven setting. However, be sure you use a thermometer and check the oven, they're not known to be very accurate off the temp dial. Use a good thermometer and it doesn't hurt to have it in the oven while you're running a temper.

 

If you want to see the temper colors run, just shine up any piece of steel and take a torch to one edge and watch the show. Of course you can use charcoal, etc. but it's a bit harder to do a good progressive temper in a gas forge. you ca still wee what it looks like by heating a longish piece with one end just inside the forge.

 

Heck, it's good practice for the real thing, it's just mild steel and you can reshine it and do it many times.

 

Frosty The Lucky.