territorialmillworks Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Torch body is WH26FC Rosebuds are 6MFA-1 OX @ 10-15 PSI Acet @ 8-12 PSI per Victor booklet 8MFA-1 OX@ 20-30 PSI Acet @ 10-15 PSI I have replaced the o-rings, dressed up the face with 320 grit sandpaper and cleaned holes with tip cleaners and adjusted the pressures until I'm totally frustrated. The torch works fine with the cutting attatchment. Any help would be appreciated....Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavala Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 It sounds like you're trying to light it like a cutting torch. When lighting the rosebud crank the acetelyn on the torch first until it burns free of soot then start adding oxygen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 If the cutting torch works okay then your oxygen side is okay, something is restricting the necessary high fuel gas flow presumably. Is it definitely the correct nozzle for the gas? I have both propane and acetylene rosebuds for my Victor torch....and I also have a lamp blacked ceiling from when my assistant tried to get an acetylene flame balanced on the propane burner which he had put in by mistake. :( You have presumably had them working before if you have changed the O rings, anything else changed? New longer or smaller bore pipes giving a pressure drop? Fuel gas Pressure gauge not reading correctly? Try another regulator set. Burner pipe seated properly in mixer/connector, no blockages or leaks? Is it burning back inside the nozzle immediately on light up, or popping after a bit of use caused by a hot nozzle again caused by fuel gas starvation? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Seelye Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Does anything here help? I have a Victor 100C that uses the same tips and I use the same pressures. Make sure you turn your acetylene up far enough to clear the smoke off the tip before adding the oxygen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Did you make sure to take the tip off before cleaning or turn the oxygen on while you cleaned it so you don't get debris down the head/tube????? I would say that could be the culprit or you have the wrong tip for the fuel gas you're using. Propane/natural gas is a different tip than acetylene. O-ring doesn't get replaced too often but never hurts. Buy a NEW tip and shoot some shop air through the rosebud head/tube. I've had issues before where a seemingly good tip with a proper cleaning just won't be up to par. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccustomknives Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Here's something most folks don't understand. With acetylene the amount one can use is equal to 1/7 per hour. When you go past that (rosebuds are notorious for this) the acetone that is in the acetylene tank boil out into the regulator and torch. I can't say this is what your problem is. I've had it happen on full tanks (#4 tank @120cf with a #6 rosebud). The math says this is within tollerance, but I was getting a white flame and burnback. If you do the math a #8 rosebud is too big for a #4 acetylene which is the average size most have in the shop. You should always use rosebuds with a full tank. On my #6 I found 10-12psi on the ac, 35-40 on the oxy worked best. If you starve it on either one it will overheat the tip followed by burnback. Do not exceed 15psi on the ac, it is naturally unstable past that and can self combust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Is the burn back happening after you light the torch or during use? If you are heating something in a confined space, such as a corner where two plates meet, it can heat the tip enough for a burn back even with proper flow. The same can happen if you are heating in the open and hold the tip to close to what you are heating. If it is happening after you have the torch lit and properly adjusted I would have the regulators checked out as they may not be flowing the correct amount. As far was the withdraw rate is concerned. I personally have found it to be worth the expense to switch to propane for my rosebud and cutting use. It is cheaper to heat with than acetylene, there is not an issue with withdraw rates, and you can get a refill at the home store or gas station when the welding supply is closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I agree with what jmcccustomknives has said here. I have two different size tanks in my shop and and two different size rose buds also. If I run the larger rose bud on the smaller tank I too have the same problem. You did not mention this, but if this is happening after you have been heating for a while your tip will over heat if you are holding it to close to your work and cause a blow out and back fire. I have had this happen also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Here's something most folks don't understand. With acetylene the amount one can use is equal to 1/7 per hour. When you go past that (rosebuds are notorious for this) the acetone that is in the acetylene tank boil out into the regulator and torch. I can't say this is what your problem is. I've had it happen on full tanks (#4 tank @120cf with a #6 rosebud). The math says this is within tollerance, but I was getting a white flame and burnback. If you do the math a #8 rosebud is too big for a #4 acetylene which is the average size most have in the shop. You should always use rosebuds with a full tank. On my #6 I found 10-12psi on the ac, 35-40 on the oxy worked best. If you starve it on either one it will overheat the tip followed by burnback. Do not exceed 15psi on the ac, it is naturally unstable past that and can self combust. Not sure how I forgot about the 1/7th rule for fuel gasses... I agree with this. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Given the pressure information the OP has posted the 1/7th draw is the least likely fault I think. Given that he has tried different pressures and presumably has set them as per the Victor book he quotes, for the 1/7 rule to be the cause both acetylene regulator guages would have to have failed simultaneously...with one showing falsely he had contents and the other that he was achieving the book pressure. When he can answer the questions we have all posed we should be able to diagnose the fault. It does not read as though he got much further than trying to light the torch, so over heating the nozzle does not appear to be the problem. It would appear something in the mixer, burner pipe or nozzle is blocking it and reducing the flow of gas. Did you make sure to take the tip off before cleaning or turn the oxygen on while you cleaned it so you don't get debris down the head/tube????? I would say that could be the culprit or you have the wrong tip for the fuel gas you're using. -Hillbilly Hillbilly's post would appear to answer the information we have been given best. I await developments with baited breath! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
territorialmillworks Posted February 21, 2013 Author Share Posted February 21, 2013 1. This is a used torch that I bought 2. I light the acetylene and then the oxygen... 3. I take the rosebud off the torch body to clean the tip. 4. Don't mean to be thick headed but what is meant by crank up the acetylene until it burns free of soot? 5. Things that I've known but have forgotten: 1/7 rule but didn't know it by that 'name' and 15PSI and acetylene self ignites 6. Problem isn't happening while in use cause I cant get it lit LOL 7. The rosebud pops, starts making a high pitch sound with thin black smoke and the tube gets hot enough to turn the tube black. 8. Tonight, I took the head off the rosebud and 'hosed' it out with brake cleaner-lots of black soot and then I did the same with the tube. Blew them out with compressed air and reassembled. Result- works fine. So what gives ???? What am I missing? Again, thanks for your help...K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Yates Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Hillbilly had it right you had crud in the rose bud . Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 When you clean the tip; the tip cleaners are mini files and the shave off soot and metal which can fall into the tubing where your fuel gas (acetylene) and oxidizer (oxygen) mix (hence mixing chamber). With the debris in there, it restricted flow of your gasses. Since acetylene burns at a high rate of speed and since the mixing chamber has an oxygen content, it allowed the torch to create fire inside the mixing chamber..... What is meant by "crank up the acetylene until the soot burns away"; when you crack the valve and light the acetylene, look art the air 6-12 inches above the flame. There is black soot rolling off. When you turn up the acetylene high enough, that black soot will quit. That is optimal fuel gas before yo open the oxygen valve. You use the oxygen to balance the flame to a neutral flame meaning not too much oxygen (oxidizing flame) and not too much fuel gas (carberizing flame). -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 (edited) I am glad you got it sorted. Every time you have a major burn back you should give it a decoke. The soot inside can build up over the years however, every time it pops because the nozzle got too hot and the gas pre-ignites/burns inside. I was always told to lead with the fuel gas for both lighting and extinguishing so you are sure the flame is out. If you turn the oygen off first the acetylene flame burns back and into the nozzle and 1) you can never be sure it is fully out 2) it deposits a bit of lamp black/soot inside the nozzle/burner tube. In the Victor book that I had with the torches it gave a basic lighting procedure:- 1,Set both gauges to deliver the indicated book pressure for the nozzle, allowing for pressure drop with long pipes. 2,Check flow by opening (and closing) the torch valves individually whilst watching for any gauge drop (especially important for cutting oxygen) 3,Light the acetylene, turn the torch valve up until the flame jumps off the end of the nozzle. 4,Turn it back down until the flame just jumps back to the nozzle. 5,Turn on the torch oxygen valve(s) and set the flame to remove the oxygen feathers on the cone. On the rosebuds I usually turn the acetylene valve up a tiny little bit after stage 3, but not enough to pop the flame off the end again. The welding and cutting torches I leave at 3,. This is from memory of thirty years ago and is what I have done ever since...it would pay to have a look in the book or on the Victor site to check for yourself. The advantage of following this procedure is that you can spot any problems immediately if the flame does not react as it should. Alan Edited February 21, 2013 by blackersmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.