Michael Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I've also got a Miller Thunderbolt that was a $50 Craigslist machine. Couldn't be happier with it, the wife on the other hand, isn't real fond of the stove pulled out from the wall and the cord running thru the kitchen window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 One issue comes to mind, as I narrow my focus on the Dialarc 250.... There's a 60 amp breaker that branches off from the house to the barn, the 60ft run of the wire is gonna reduce the amperage, and at best I'll have a 50amp breaker for the machine to run off of... Does anyone see a problem with this? I mean, if I don't turn the volume up I should be fine right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 If I got this right... According to the literature on Miller's website at 250A the output voltage is 40V, the input is voltage 220V single phase. 250A*40V = 10,000 V-A 10,000 V-A / 220V = 45A input amperage. I may have the loaded voltage wrong which would change the input amperage. It is a simple transformer calculation so I am confident I applied the correct formula. You should be fine. Someone can double check this (please) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 Everything that I've read so far tells me I should be good if I don't max it out. We'll see I guess... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 What you are dealing with is electricity. Wire size, fuse size, voltage, conductor length, voltage drop (to be specific on a few things but I am NOT an electrician). My advice would be to get a competent licensed electrician to inspect the setting. The internet is an interesting place. Advice gleaned here is fine but your home insurance (not to mention national and local laws) may be in conflict with any actions you may or may not take. Yeah, sounds like lawyer talk but you should know the league you are in before you make decisions. Ultimately, fire is the big thing but there are of course other personal health and machine life issues. Miller Thunderbolt is a good starter machine. Good leads, good connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Everything that I've read so far tells me I should be good if I don't max it out. We'll see I guess... The only way you will max this machine out is if you try to do some carbon arc gouging or aluminum welding if you ever get a high freq. box. You could run 5/32 dia electodes dc Which will lay a 1/4" fillet weld and not brake 160 amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sask Mark Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Out of that list, the Miller is by far the best. Stay away from the little inverter welders, they are light wieght and are becoming more common. The problem is, they have on average a 5 year life expectancy (doesn't matter if they are used or not). The offbrand stuff can be an adventure to get parts. Now that doesn't mean that that particular machine is in good shape, always check it out and weld with it before you buy any used machine. Can you explain why the inverter welders only have a 5 year life expectancy? I asked a friend who used to teach electronics at tech school about this and he didn't know anything about it. I'm curious as to why this would be. I was given a 40 amp inverter plasma cutter. Would this 5 year rule apply to it as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 What you are dealing with is electricity. Wire size, fuse size, voltage, conductor length, voltage drop (to be specific on a few things but I am NOT an electrician). My advice would be to get a competent licensed electrician to inspect the setting. The internet is an interesting place. Advice gleaned here is fine but your home insurance (not to mention national and local laws) may be in conflict with any actions you may or may not take. Yeah, sounds like lawyer talk but you should know the league you are in before you make decisions. Ultimately, fire is the big thing but there are of course other personal health and machine life issues. Miller Thunderbolt is a good starter machine. Good leads, good connections. This sounds like the a very doable thing considering I'll be calling one out here for a 220 hook up. I can do a lot of macgyver-like things, but electricity is a constant battle. My wife knows better than to ask me to hang christmas lights it's such a sore subject... The only way you will max this machine out is if you try to do some carbon arc gouging or aluminum welding if you ever get a high freq. box. You could run 5/32 dia electodes dc Which will lay a 1/4" fillet weld and not brake 160 amps. Good to know, It's a lot of machine.... I don't foresee me pushing those boundaries anytime soon, but it's good to know it's potential... I can't wait to start tapping into the capabilities by adding a tig set up in the not so distant future.... I'll definitely have to bring the electric framework up to par when I do so, but that's all good. Can you explain why the inverter welders only have a 5 year life expectancy? I asked a friend who used to teach electronics at tech school about this and he didn't know anything about it. I'm curious as to why this would be. I was given a 40 amp inverter plasma cutter. Would this 5 year rule apply to it as well? Think it's just a guestimation. Inverter welders are getting a lot better with the IGBT inverter technology, where it's predecessor technology lacked, it now succeeds... I would also assume that these machines are under constant duty-cycle stresses, and some people less educated on welder operations, probably don't abide by the parameters or don't understand them. Good way to kill machines. My guess is that if you abide by the duty cycle guidelines, your machine will last more than 5 years. There's also a lot of anti-chinese sentiment when it comes to the crap they've been sending over for years now... Today their technology mirrors our own in regards to inverter technology, and they're far more reliable do to local companies selling the machines under their name. I've heard of a couple of these welders working their way into local commercial shops, taking abuse, and working like a scalded ape with no issues whatsoever... The individual in mind hates china, tried to kill the machine out of spite over the past 2 years, and now loves the machine, but still hates china.lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Can you explain why the inverter welders only have a 5 year life expectancy? I asked a friend who used to teach electronics at tech school about this and he didn't know anything about it. I'm curious as to why this would be. I was given a 40 amp inverter plasma cutter. Would this 5 year rule apply to it as well? When in use semiconductors, such as those in an inverter, loose their ability to switch over time. This happens quicker when the device is operated at a "high" temperature, which I understand is typical for small inverter machines. Properly stored, and infrequently used this should not happen as quick. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 The 5 year expectancy is a urban legend. My experience with Miller inverters has been very good. When I was working for another company I was involved with the purchase and testing when we started to switch to the inverters in the early 1990's. We had over 50 of theses units in service when I left there 5 years ago. Since I have left I know the have added more including some Lincoln's which I understand perform just as well. These machines are work horses and are still in service today. I have seen one fall off 20 ft of scafolding, smashed on the ground and the operator was still welding with and never knew it had fallen. They get turn on in the morning and might run 24 hrs over two shifts for 5 or 6 days. Some are hooked up to a semi automatic welding process and make continuous welds up to 30 or more minutes in one pass. Local mines here have been using theses machines under ground in severe service for years. The get kicked around pretty good but they still work. We found out early on if you have a good maintenance schedule they will last. The biggest problem we have seen, is they will pick up grinding dust through the air intake and it would sit on the circut board and eventually cause the board to short out. We started to serviced them by taking the cover off and blown out every 6 months, more in severe conditions. Now the boards are sealed to help prevent this problem. My XMT304 was made in 1998 and still works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Dialarc 250 deal is in the works, I'm going to go check her out tomorrow, cash in hand... This has been a very difficult decision, considering all of the variables present, but it seems to be a welder that I can definitely grow into. There are pristine ac/dc thunderbolts showing up everywhere for $275-350 range, which do leave me juggling the idea of "this is sufficient, and $225 cheaper", but I can't negate the heart aching satisfaction of temptation that is the Dialarc 250... I've mentioned my rubin-'esque attraction to ladies in previous posts, I guess the same feelings apply here. *** help me, and my electric bill. Thanks again for your collective guidance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubiack Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 I hope you get the welder. If you do I don't think you will regret the extra $225 for the Dialarc instead of the Thunderbolt. The Thunderbolt is a good welder but you will run into duty cycle issues if you start welding much. For me its was not a deal breaker but it can get annoying and I would gladly have spent the extra if I could have found one used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Your electric bill will be punnished in a similar manner by a smaller machine...possibly worse with a small machine if you end up doing a lot of welding on heavy material because it takes more passes and longer time to lay the same material down. If you are welding "normal" size material suitable to several machines, using the same setting range and consumables the electric bill should be nearly the same as these are transformers. I hope you get a good one for your shop and your future needs. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 If it helps any. In my opion, the Dial Arc will hold it's resale value more than a thunder bolt. If you ever upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Tried to pick it up this afternoon, but the seller was unable due to work obligations... A pleasant surprise considering these economically harsh times... He felt bad for not being free to do the deal, so he knocked the price down to $300!!!! After reading the text in the TSC parking lot, I spit my soda all over the dash of my truck... lol I can hardly contain my excitement!!! 9 a.m. tomorrow, at his business adress, the transaction will be made, and I will be the proud owner of a Miller Dialarc 250 welding machine... WOOO HOOOO!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 8, 2012 Author Share Posted September 8, 2012 Awesomesauce, It was a beast of a machine. The three of us could barely get the thing in the back of the truck, thought it was solid lead...lol came with about 50-60 pounds of various specialty electrodes... have to see what I got, because non of the numbers clicked in my head (NO 6011, 7014,7018)... The guy did a lot of drag racing, so I guess they were applicable to the material needs of that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I have the same machine, I use mine as a tig scratch arc, old school style. It is the only welding machine in my shop that will work after a EMP though :lol: You can find all kinds of info on the rods and what they are used for on the web but I would recommend drying them in a oven first, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Allright for you! The numbers on the electrodes are AWS (American Welding Society) classifications. Which will tell you the tensile strenght and the chemical make up each type of electrode. Lincoln Electric publishes a book call The Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding. If you were to have one book in your libary for welding this would be the one to have. It is available through the James F. Lincoin Arc Welding Foudation. This book will give you everything you would ever want to know about welding. Have fun with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbillysmith Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Get a Lincoln Electric AC/DC "Tombstone" welder. Absolutely, without a doubt, THE best bang for your buck. They've been around for a very long tine with no design changes so they're reliable and extremely easy to get replacement parts for if needed. Get some 3/32" E-6013 for ornate and sheet metal work, 3/32" & 1/8" E-7018 for all your structural applications that you want a smooth finish on, and 1/8" E-6010 for thick material and where you need high penetration. With proper know how and equipment, you then can covert to tig but it won't be an ideal tig setup due to the lack of fine tune adjustment on the machine. -Hillbilly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Get a Lincoln Electric AC/DC "Tombstone" welder. Absolutely, without a doubt, THE best bang for your buck. They've been around for a very long tine with no design changes so they're reliable and extremely easy to get replacement parts for if needed. Get some 3/32" E-6013 for ornate and sheet metal work, 3/32" & 1/8" E-7018 for all your structural applications that you want a smooth finish on, and 1/8" E-6010 for thick material and where you need high penetration. With proper know how and equipment, you then can covert to tig but it won't be an ideal tig setup due to the lack of fine tune adjustment on the machine. -Hillbilly $300 for the Dialarc was just to good of a deal to pass up... Couldn't afford not to scoop it up... and by scoop it up, I mean kill myself trying to get it on and off the truck... I've purchased 10 lbs. of hobart 7018 3/32 for welding up my forklift fork anvil. I won't break those out until the day of... I'll run a few test beads with the sticks I got in the deal, after I throw them in the oven for a bit... Thanks for the tips regarding electrode application... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bam Bam 1 Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 atta boy.good score on the machine ive seen those welders run non stop for weeks at a time.and yes i mean 24hrs aday not ever turned off between shift changes on heavy construction sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 That was a good deal! This opens up a lot of possibilities in blacksmithing, especially for making tools. Welding up anvils is no fun. The first one I made was terrible. It was only good for getting someone hooked. The second was decent, and the third was excellent. Oddly enough, the decent one is good enough. The welder will also be good for making things like jigs. This welder would be almost as good. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/tls/3266121390.html Either will be better than a small imported inverter or cheap wirefeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulsepushthepopulace Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ohhh Man... I'm having a blast... I finally got all the electrical sorted, flipped the switch and the fan hummed this beautiful hymn, unlike anything thing I'd ever heard... Laid a few beads, got stuck... laid a few more... started to get the feel for the process... I just started getting really good with the mig, so seeing the globular mess again made me smile and say "that ain't right"... I went through about 10 lbs of 3/32 sticks friday, just getting the over all hang of it... tis my Zen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWHII Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Ohhh Man... I'm having a blast... I finally got all the electrical sorted, flipped the switch and the fan hummed this beautiful hymn, unlike anything thing I'd ever heard... Laid a few beads, got stuck... laid a few more... started to get the feel for the process... I just started getting really good with the mig, so seeing the globular mess again made me smile and say "that ain't right"... I went through about 10 lbs of 3/32 sticks friday, just getting the over all hang of it... tis my Zen. :lol: :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gaddis Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 You have yourself a fine machine! I used one of those for many years without any problem whatsoever. The stated duty cycle is not so high, like the Thunderbolt's, but in reality it will run -run-run. If you continue with those small rods it will never tax the true duty cycle. One of the nice things about the machine is the OCV (open current voltage)...what is available when you strike a rod to start...then it drops to true operating voltage. Pretty smooth for your economics. Yes there are more "precise" units with much more highly specialized values..but the dollar value goes up tremendously. Get yourself a few 1/8" 6010's and 7018's a let a good neighbot help you to appreciate your machine. If you get lazy that unit will run 5/32" and 3/16" to fill a big gap quickly. Be aware...those larger rods generate a whole lot of heat...on the work surface..in the shop...and on the operator! For a small shop you will have a jam-up nice machine. Consider running your ground to a common ground in the building...you only have to drag out a small connector grounding wire to the work, and one long electrode cable. That may not pass code but many shops do that to reduce amount of cables on the floor. Enjoy! Carry on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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