Am I limited to short pieces with my rivet forge?

[LizT]

Hello, all...this is my first post. I live in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I'm learning some basic blacksmithing and welding from Christopher Daniel at Blue Hell Studios in Cincinnati. I love it. I easily lose track of the hours while I'm working with metal.

I've got a little rivet forge set up (with a Buffalo Forge blower) and some nice coal (the coal came from the wonderful folks at Southern Ohio Forge and Anvil Blacksmithing Association)...and I can easily work small pieces in the fire.

I'd like to work longer pieces, but I can't figure out how to get the fire and coals high enough to do it. In other words, I can work the ends of any piece into the fire, but I can't get anything deeper than 6 inches or so into the heat.

My question: Is there some way to build a fire higher than the edges of the forge? Or will I eventually need to find a larger forge to handle longer pieces?

Liz

[CurlyGeorge]

Hi Liz. I use a rivet forge when doing demos. In order to get my fire deeper, I set a fire brick on edge on each side of where I want the fire and build the fire between the bricks. this allows me to keep the fire narrower and build it up deeper. This method is a quick fix to the shallow fire problem. Hope this helps. :)

[JimsShip]

Hi Liz!
Couldn't you lay the long piece accross the forge so the area you want to work on is in the fire?
I also have a small forge, and frequently use my BBG grill on the other side of the forge to help support my stock, I put the are i want to work on in the fire, and then pile the coals on top.
I wouldn't think you'd really need to heat more than 6" at a time since by the time you hammered up that far you would have lost your heat.
What were you thinking of making?

[Drewed]

There is also nothing wrong with bending the longer pieces to fit into the fire. Just straighten them afterwords. I do that all the time.

[Sam Salvati]

build up the pan with clay.

[ThomasPowers]

You can also put in a sheet metal "fence" around the inner edge of the forge that extends *up*. do it out of plain sheet metal---not painted, plated or galvanized (yes it's a plating...)

When I did this for a brake drum forge I bent the sheet metal into a C shape leave a couple inches of open space between the ends and then cut a mousehole opposite that was just over where the rim of the forge ran so I could run long billets all the way through the hot spot and out the other side.

Note that many rivet forges have small hand crank blowers on them that really don't put out enough air to get too big a fire going---or they will if you crank like mad all the time---way more work than getting a bigger blower and fitting it to the forge that will handle a large fire with minimal effort.

[LizT]

Thanks so much for all your very helpful suggestions! I think I'll first try using the fire bricks to build a narrower yet deeper fire. That seems to me to solve my problem most quickly.

JimsShip, I want to use 3' lengths of 1/4" round stock to make a few long hive tools for beekeeping...my other equipment intensive hobby. :)

-Liz

[Don Shears]

LizT - I used a rivet forge often, and for longer pieces (~ 4 foot) I'd use a 'blacksmiths helper.' Basically an adjustible support stand (they're usually tripod based) for the cold end of the longer work piece(s). Meant that I could work multiple long pieces. Nor was I trapped holding the end of a a single long piece, to keep it from falling out of the fire.

The method of using firebricks to build up fire depth gives a little (better then none) flexibility to match fire size to the work piece (see Thomas' comment above.) As a cautionary, if your operating either portable or doing a demo away from home, plan extra time into your pack up schedule to allow the bricks to cool some. I'd the experience of being rushed (museum closing) so I quickly dunked the bricks into a bucket of water, then put them into an old metal waste basket. Put the basket in the car trunk and finished packing. When I started driving home my car smelt like a coal fired sauna!

[trying-it]

As Curly George said to use firebricks, another option here is to use a couple pieces of bigger angle iron. Upright flats in center pointing up and other flats pointing out. Coal/charcoal fuel around outside then helps to hold the angle irons in position. Bigger the angle iron the taller the fire can be built.

Jeremy K. taught me that trick here at my first hammer-in.

Stan

[Judson Yaggy]

There is a technique in blacksmithing called the "bend of convenance". This is when you bend your piece in a way that is not required in the final shape, but rather allows you to hit or heat the stock in a place that would be awkward to reach if the bend were not there.

If you want to heat and hit the middle of a 60" bar in a small fire, put a bend in the bar cold or with moderate heat, then stuff the bend deeper into the heart of the fire. When you are done working your stock simply reheat and hammer back to your final desired shape. Hope this helps.

[forgemaster]

When I started my apprenticeship it was in a little 2 fire shop up the north coast of NSW Aust we used to HT and sett all manner of spring leaves for trucks up to Semi trailer prime movers, these leafs were up to 8'/9' long, all with a fire about 18" long, we would close all the windows and doors to cut down on any drafts or cross breezes, sit the leaf in the fire, turn it on and as Stewart says just start running the steel back and forth through the fire, gradually becoming quicker as it got hotter, if one part needed more heat we would concentrate on it, then run back to the rest of the leaf to keep it hot. In this way we could get an entire spring leaf up to temp to allow us to bend it and quench in oil to harden it, all in the same heat.

Phil