I just discovered that the French have a nice word for knives with a little rougher finish... they call it "Brut De Forge" . I like that! The New England School of Metalwork has an upcoming course on making them! So I guess that they are a trend, of sorts anyway. Sounds a lot nicer than "Rough Forged" or "Primitive" and I like it even better than "As Forged". "Brut De Forge" is clearly a name evoking MANLY cutlery!

I always liked this piece of work from Don Fogg:
http://www.dfoggknives.com/Oldbone.htm

He cleaned it all up and then textured...so it was well planned.

Ric

We get a lot of requests for "Forge finish" tools..A lot of people really like it, some dont..If ya' dont move on. pretty simple..Forged finish items can be well done or badly done like anything else..I personally leave my user knives at about 400 grit..Anything hgher is gone in no time..Same with hawks..My personal hawks have a forge finish and resist rust very,very well...A highly polished hawk will look plain awful after one day on the hillside. Now Im not talking about sloppy work..A good forge finish can be very,very smooth with almost no hammer marks..leaving great globs of forge scale, burnt flux and huge burn pits is another thing entirely...
Id also like to add that I see several full time makers now a days leaving scale on all the flats with only the bevels machine polished selling truckloads of knives..There must be a lot of people out there that like that look..

What a great can of worms this thread is. :) I love it!
That being said, hammer on. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, whomever the beholder is.
I've been making chef knives in the past year and have been selling them locally through a knife shop across the street, as well as thru my through my shop. What I have found is that most buyers want a knife that looks like it was hand made...chefs included...and are willing to pay for it. According to the chefs I have done business with, functionality comes first...and the blade must be good...tough, hard , but sharpenable on the fly. A couple of passes on the steel and they're they're ready to go.
So, I've been making blades that are 5160, 52100, 1095, and san mai 304/1095., as well as damascus blades.
From what I've seen, chefs like to be proud of their blades, and a few signs of their origins, ie, hammer marks, are more than acceptable. They're a symbol of the pride in workmanship, much as the chefs work.
JE

That is an interesting note on the chefs, seems like they'd want a knife as polished as possible for cleanliness.

I agree and I make most blades where the mill scale is wire wheeled/buffed out leaving the hammering indentations in tact. It really doesn't take much, even a slight indication that says it wasn't made in a factory. It's all about being hand made. A good story and an upbeat, enthusiastic attitude helps too when it comes to selling when people come to the shop. I love the process and really like talking to and showing how the process works.
Most folks have never seen anything forged, let alone a knife, so they're almost always interested in the process.
JE

That is an interesting note on the chefs, seems like they'd want a knife as polished as possible for cleanliness.

You know i always thought the same thing until I started really looking..Me and my wife watch a lot of cooking shows,chef competitions and the like..Ive noticed several chefs who had knife sets with forged flats..Heavily forged flats at that..

You know i always thought the same thing until I started really looking..Me and my wife watch a lot of cooking shows,chef competitions and the like..Ive noticed several chefs who had knife sets with forged flats..Heavily forged flats at that..

The rough texture of the forged blade breaks the suction so that food doesn’t stick to the knife as they chop.

There we go! Better than Santoku! Free from the forging process! What a deal! I saw a beautiful knife at Hank Knickmeyer's yesterday! It is HARD to believe that anyone could look at that magnificent knife and think that the maker was lazy because he didn't grind off that rough forged surface on the flats! Certainly a smoothly ground surface would NOT have ruined that knife... BUT it would have been LESS interesting and LESS beautiful!

ciladog - Thats interesting I never thought of that, it probably gives a better grip if you work up on the blade as well.

On a side note, I use some big heavy choppers that I've made rough (most of my blades..) and when chopping down trees and bushes the bark tends to get into the depressions. A wire brush will get it out.

On another side note, this thread got me thinking. I have been lazy sometimes and rushed a knife, usually the heat treat comes out sub par. And I get excessive scale forming on the blade because I crank my blower too fast. So yesterday I forged a small blade and kept it clean from scale and took my time during heats. Though its not the largest blade I have ever made, it has been 98% forged to shape and carefully heat treated. I even took extra time working the handle, I reckon it took me twice as long to make it than it usually would start to finish.

I'm saying I learned from this thread, the knife had no scale to clean off; no major pits or hammer marks. Holds a good shaving edge even after whittling for a while on oak. It does sport a nice forge finish.. Which I'm fond of, a true carry around advertising knife.

He who comes to this forum with an open mind shall have it filled! Amen brother!

.... So yesterday I forged a small blade and kept it clean from scale and took my time during heats......

Pictures, pretty please.

I think Stormcow said it all. 90% of my stuff looks like it came out of a forge at a fur trade era trading post. If my stuff wouldnt look at home in an War of 1812 encampment, I probably wouldnt make it.

Save that most knives from the fur trade era were made in factories in England and France....

It's a problem we see in medieval recreation too---stuff that is unreasonably coarse looking cause it's "old". Sometimes it's due to preservation bias---crude heavy stuff tends to last longer than thin elegant stuff. Sometimes it's due to folks not realizing that what they see in the museum is NOT what the piece looked like centuries ago when it was *new*. And a lot is because people think that stuff was crude back in those days---often a very wrong viewpoint!

...... And a lot is because people think that stuff was crude back in those days---often a very wrong viewpoint!

This is sadly very true in my humble experience. If I make something for a vendor in Gettysburg, within a few weeks crude poorly made copies will appear in just about every other store in Gettysburg within weeks, and both the store owners and buyers will swear that the copies are more authentic because they are so badly made. Blacksmiths made quality work. It is sad that the public thinks otherwise.

Here is how to make a knife. Have a clean anvil surface and hammer face. *Properly* finish the hammer face and edges so that the hammer does not leave marks. This means that the hammer face should be slightly domed, and the edges of the face rounded. Don't overhead the knife blade material. Remove scale with a wire brush while hot, then hammer so as not to hammer the scale into the knife's surface. And especially, *leave enough thickness to the blade" to allow removal of any imperfections.

There are a number of excellent books on knifemaking, and JPH wrote three of the best (in my opinion). Get books, read, take courses, and if you really want to have knifemaking your life goal, then consider joining the American Bladesmith Society and learn from them: http://www.americanbladesmith.com/

"Here is how to make a knife." by ABS mastersmith Shane Taylor, M. S.

http://bladegallery.com/shopexd.asp?id=89709&photo=8&size=n

"Here is how to make a knife." by ABS mastersmith Joe Keeslar

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/index.php?/gallery/image/514-2011-abs-board-of-directors-knife-brut-de-forge-bowie-by-joe-keeslar-master-smith/

And another example by Master Smith Joe Keeslar

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/index.php?/gallery/image/143-2010-tomb-knife-of-the-year-by-master-smith-joe-keeslar/

"Here is how to make a knife." by Master Bladesmith Jason Knight (click on "Sooke Mountain Chopper")

http://jasonknightknives.com/index.php/portfolio-a-image-galleries/porfolio-all-knives

"Here is how to make a knife." by Rick Dunkerley M. S. and Don Fogg M. S.

http://www.exquisiteknives.com/detail_new.php?id=360

Pictures of the little knife are in a new thread..