Dave Huntress Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hi folks, Dave here.....aka Tigman from the chopper forums.. I am a self employed fabricator who has just recently bought an old Buffalo forge with electric blower. This well used forge needs some work but I want to bring it back to life. My buddy found it in Sandwich, MA. at an old blacksmith shop that seemed to die off. So I have some questions about set up. My welding shop is 36 x 24. I planned on fabricating a new hood and piping it thru my barn wall using a type B style vent tube. (if that makes any sense) Like my mr heater uses that hangs from my ceiling. I don't want to burn the place down so any suggestions would be great. I have read a couple of posts and am seeing Q's like "did you clay the box?" Not sure what this means.. Is this simply extra protection for the thin wall sheet metal walls of the forge? And where do I get it? Also the coal dump I think it's called in my forge is cracked and I'll have to pull it apart and see if I can weld it, looks like it might leak air and mess with me.. anyway, hope to hear back from some of you folks for some guidance.... thanks in advance..... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Howdy from East TEXAS!! and welcome to IFI! Pictures of you forge along with the problem areas will help. If it is a pressed tin forge pan there is no need to line it with clay but it won't hurt either. There are a few recipes on how to make the clay liner here, just do a search and you will get several. A hood is ok, but a side draft is far better. Check the blueprint section for Hofi's side draft. simple to fab up and they work! I search the net, pre IFI, to get instuctions and combined a few designs to suit my needs, love it. You should use at least 10" pipe and 12" is better. I had a sheet metal shop cut and roll some 18ga into 10" dia x 5' sections, made my own miters and ran mine out the side wall of my shop. Good luck and once again, welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 "Claying" means lining the pan where the fire sits to protect the thin metal, whether cast iron or sheet metal, from the heat. Heavy iron or plate forges do not need clay. here is a proven chimney/hood ideahttp://www.iforgeiro...-draft-chimney/ edit: I see Thomas Dean suggested this while I was getting the link A crack in the flap won't make much difference. Some air leak won't matter any, but a lot of air leak will. It may be easier to fab a new flap from mild steel than to weld a cast iron flap. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 A factory Buffalo forge 'probably' has a separate cast iron firepot and will not need further insulation (pics would help us). In addition, an electric blower really needs a damper - it will work better to leave the blower running while you work and control blast with the air gate rather than try and slow the fan speed. I have a factory Buffalo forge that was complete when I first bought it almost 20 years ago and still had its OD paint but the half hood has since rotted away. The forge was surplus from a local Air Force base and was new in WW2. It appeared to have been used little if at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 thanks for the feedback guys. I'll post pics later today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 Here is a pic of the forge. Like I said it's well used. I won't be going the side draft route, I need the vent pipe up higher like at 8' from the floor. So the bigger the better on the vent pipe seems to be what I'm reading.... this particular forge came with an adjustable hood. It had like 15' of 7" stove pipe attached to a cone and that had chain hooked to the cone so you could adjust the height of the cone over the fire pit. But I won't be using that method.. I'll build a fixed hood and vent that. The blower does have a small flue like lever in front of the coal dump to adjust air flow. Right now seems to be stuck. I'm spraying that with some penetrant to loosen it up. The fire pit is pretty beat but hopefully I'm okay.. this will be a "learn as I burn" sort of thing as for anyone I guess. On the right hand side someone had hacked the side panel and bent it down...I'll restore that back to original.... okay thats it for now.... suggestions/comments etc.....thanks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Side draft will be much more effective and easier to use than a top draft *unless* you will be enclosing the entire forge in a shroud. You don't need to clay this one as it's already been lined with firebrick. The beat up firepot should last you years with no repairs! They are quite expensive but still available. The side slot is a feature not a flaw; like Thomas I'd leave it alone or make a removable "cover" for it and think about doing the other side as well. If you will put your general location in your profile folks might be able to suggest places you could go to see how others have dealt with the chimney issues in your climate(legal and weather) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 thanks for the comments and the info guys. some good info there, do appreciate. also took care of my profile info as well. I think I will go with the side draft with the hood. The only thing I'm in a two story New England Gambrell barn style shop. I have a 2nd floor and the shop is ground floor. My vent pipe will have to go right angle thru the wall from my hood 8' from the floor with another right angle up to the cap. Don't think I can go higher than the roof peak because it's 26' high. hmmmm.. anyone else in a barn style building? I'll post pics later.... thanks guys you were a big help.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Dave, I have 2 miter bends in my flue pipe and have no problems with the draw from the side draft....but my shop/studio is only 14"6" at peak. You might consider running your flue through the wall and then up. Also, check with a chimney person in your area for suggestions. I'm sure they can give you some good direction in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 Thanks Tom, good idea.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 okay so yesterday I clocked out at 3:30 and started tearing down the forge for some well needed repair. I figure I'll do the right thing before firing up any coal. The coal dump had two broken ears and a huge space between the fire pit so I couldn't see it working properly. Of course the bolts broke when I tried to unbolt it, even with heat they were just too old. After pulling it all apart I found the 3" flue pipe was filled with all kinds of stuff like acorns and some sort of nesting going on... glad I pulled it apart, it was full.... I cleaned up the broken parts with a 50 grit and welded them back on. The 3 hole bolt pattern was missing one ear so I had to add so material and drill a new hole. Then when that was done I cut the broken bolts down flush with a cut off wheel and drilled out the old bolts and re-tapped them to 3/8"-16. I had to oil up and work the 3" flue gate (not sure of termonoligy yet) to working order. Then I bolted it all back in... I'm excited actually for today. I still need to build my hood but I want to try it out. It's still not cold enough for the heat to be on so I'll just open the 12' bay door and give it a whirl......anyone else on here have one of these old Buffalo forges? here's some pics of my adventure last night... the whole ordeal took me about 4 hours.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 when you decide to fix something you do it right having a forge is a really handy tool in a shop and for me at least its been really nice to save on gas and time when i need to do some larger heats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 okay so yesterday I clocked out at 3:30 and started tearing down the forge for some well needed repair. I figure I'll do the right thing before firing up any coal. The coal dump had two broken ears and a huge space between the fire pit so I couldn't see it working properly. Of course the bolts broke when I tried to unbolt it, even with heat they were just too old. After pulling it all apart I found the 3" flue pipe was filled with all kinds of stuff like acorns and some sort of nesting going on... glad I pulled it apart, it was full.... I cleaned up the broken parts with a 50 grit and welded them back on. The 3 hole bolt pattern was missing one ear so I had to add so material and drill a new hole. Then when that was done I cut the broken bolts down flush with a cut off wheel and drilled out the old bolts and re-tapped them to 3/8"-16. I had to oil up and work the 3" flue gate (not sure of termonoligy yet) to working order. Then I bolted it all back in... I'm excited actually for today. I still need to build my hood but I want to try it out. It's still not cold enough for the heat to be on so I'll just open the 12' bay door and give it a whirl......anyone else on here have one of these old Buffalo forges? here's some pics of my adventure last night... the whole ordeal took me about 4 hours.... I have the exact same firepot with air gate. Good job cleaning and fixing it; you will not regret spending the time to do that. The air gate should work freely as you want infinite control when the blower is going. If you have the old fixed position rheostat, the lowest 2 settings are plenty powerful to run one fire. I personally believe that Buffalo sold them with the intent that the blower could be turned on and left running to provide air to two forges set back to back - at the highest setting, the fan will blow the coke right out of a single pot. FWIW, I put mine on the second setting and leave it running the entire time I work while controlling blast with the gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Szlosek Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hey Dave - I recently picked up a Buffalo forge myself out in Greenfield MA. Mine is a large shop model forge that has had at one point or another new sheet metal placed in the bottom of it. I plan on replacing this in turn with some thicker sheet/thin plate. Since my firepot looks identical to yours here is my question: How does the firepot sit flush when you have the two longer "lips" that sit up higher than the two sides with the bolt holes? When I purchased mine it simply was fastened with the two side edges flush but the top and bottom lips just hovering in the air. I have never seen a firepot installed this way and I don't think it is correct. Unfortunately I don't have one I can look at right now to compare. Hopefully my question was clear. If you could explain or maybe take some closer pics than the first one you included that would be great. Thanks! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 Hey Dave - I recently picked up a Buffalo forge myself out in Greenfield MA. Mine is a large shop model forge that has had at one point or another new sheet metal placed in the bottom of it. I plan on replacing this in turn with some thicker sheet/thin plate. Since my firepot looks identical to yours here is my question: How does the firepot sit flush when you have the two longer "lips" that sit up higher than the two sides with the bolt holes? When I purchased mine it simply was fastened with the two side edges flush but the top and bottom lips just hovering in the air. I have never seen a firepot installed this way and I don't think it is correct. Unfortunately I don't have one I can look at right now to compare. Hopefully my question was clear. If you could explain or maybe take some closer pics than the first one you included that would be great. Thanks! Nick You have described the correct setup - if you drop the pot so it rests on the long side, there will be a gap between the sheet metal and the lower lips where fuel can fall through. Normally, you fasten it at the bolt holes and either fill to level with fire clay or coal. Some folks don't realize how well coal insulates around the fire if piled up and wetted - will center the fire right over the pot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 thanks big red, hey did you sell that anvil? HW I am still learning and you are right I don't regret spending time on the repairs. This will make me some money for one thing and has to be in good working order.. Nick HW has answered your question. I would post pics but the site is fighting me on that, can't post pics up quite yet...???? But that higher lip on the front and back is for the fire brick and the sides where the bolts hold it down is for sliding your work piece into the hot coals... I've just been testing mine out the last two days learning how to get the thing lit quickly and without smoking up the shop.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 the 80lb fisher i did or at least i have a handshake on it but the guy in question has yet to come up with the cash for it but i know he had some unexpected expenses come up so at the moment i am just sitting on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 27, 2011 Author Share Posted October 27, 2011 I am in search of maybe 100 pounder. My dad used to have one but was stolen from me years ago.... I'm still missing that anvil... so every morning I have been firing up my coal forge. Now I'm a full time welder/fab guy and the blacksmith stuff is new to me. It's getting quicker getting it lit and today I had the best looking hot pit of coals all week. It got up to about 65* in the shop by noon so that was a good thing. I would do some work and tend to the fire back and forth ya know. But I had to leave at 2:30 to get the kids at school and gas the car, then go pick up my wifes car at the shop. Took about an hour and when I got back I expected a hot pit of coal but it went out on me.... I was so bummed out because it was a full pit of nice hot coals... it was awesome.... till I got back... I had the blower going too.... oh well, tomorrow is another day... I'm just basically burning coal just to get good at that and play here and there... I'll post pics soon of a project. Hey how much you guys paying for coal? I just paid 17 cents per pound...... thanks for reading.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 28, 2011 Author Share Posted October 28, 2011 oh man I just don't get it.... I will eventually learn but two days in a row my coals just sort of died on me... my buddy that sold me the forge stopped by and at the time about 10:00 am I had a nice pit full of hot coals. By 1:00 the coals were just dieing down. I mean I'm constantly tending to them and feeding coal in there but I just don't get it why it died on me.... too much air? burning too fast or not enough air? how far open do you guys keep your flue gate open? Also do you break up your coal pieces and just feed smaller pieces in the red hots or do you put in big baseball size pieces? Any tips for a greenhorn? thanks in advance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Clinker. Stop the air for a minute (well a few seconds), pull the fire apart, and hook out anything that is not burning coke. When you are using the forge for heating iron you will need to do this hourly or more frequently. An anvil does not need to look like a London pattern anvil. Call up the local forklift repair place and ask if you, an amature blacksmith, can get a scrap fork to cut up. Off to pay a fair scrap rate for it. They may require it cut before you take it. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 thanks phil .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciladog Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Dave, Like anything else you learn in blacksmithing, there is an art to it. Tending a forge fire is an art and you will eventually learn it. Take a guess why there is so much room in the forge around the firebox. The answer is so you can pile up green coal around the firebox that you will continuously rake toward the firebox as it converts from green coal to coke at the edge of the fire.Most blacksmith will use bituminous or soft coal that converts to coke when the volatiles burn out leaving carbon. It is the carbon (coke) you burn to heat the iron.A lot of people that are just starting out think they can conserve coal by building small fires with just a little coal. It does not produce enough heat and it will burn out in short order especially if you leave the air blast on. The fire also needs to be sufficiently deep so that the oxygen is consumed deep in the firebox before it gets to the metal you are heating otherwise you produce a lot of scale on the metal. It’s not uncommon to go through 10 or 15 pounds of coal per hour and more it you’re doing heaving forging. If you want to leave the fire and come back to it some time later (like having lunch) you turn off the blower and bank the fire with green coal. You pile three or four inches of coal on top and all around so you can no longer see the burning coke. When you come back (even a few hours later) you start up the blower and fire will come back. Rake the green coal back to the edges of the fire and you are back in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred1o1 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 i tend to save out the coke that i have left at the end of the day and start with all green coal when i fire up the forge and just start working with some smaller projects untill the fire is nice and clean this way i tend to have 5-10 gallons of coke on hand for if i need to build up a fire quickly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Dave: Welcome aboard, I've been doing . . . Something or I would've said hi sooner. Nice score on the forge and it looks like it's in good working condition. What are you referring to as a "flue"? A flue in the "right term" sense is in the stack to limit how much goes up the chimney. An air gate controls how much air blast enters the fire pot. I'm going out on a limb here and assuming you're talking about the air gate. I don't burn coal often as it's hard to get here unless I go mountain climbing and dig my own. When it was a regular fuel we broke it into nut size, I liked it to pass a 3/4" seive and used it all down to the dust, that's called 3/4" minus if you're asking for it at a supplier. After we'd prepped the coal we'd coke up a days worth in the morning but not many guys do that. I rarely build a green coal fire but that's the most common. A little searching here will supply lots of methods for lighting the fire, some use a ball of newspaper, some use a little paper and a pile or stack of really small split wood or plane shavings, etc. I like to roll a strip of box cardboard about 2" wide and 18-20" long into a coil, set it into coal over the air grate and pile clean 3/4" coal around it and over it leaving a couple inches clear in the center of the coil. Next I lay the finer coal around the pile. The larger pieces next and on top of the coil are to allow free air flow. Lastly, once I have the size pile I want to work in, I pack the exterior with wet coal dust till it's packed solid. Then I give the blower a gentle turn, just enough so there's a little air flow to keep the matches lit and drop a couple lit wooden matches into gaps in the cardboard coil and once the coil starts burning I give it a little air and cover the center with larger pieces of coal. When I have fire coming through the coal I cover it with the sifted coal and when the smoke is rolling strong I poke a little hole down the center to expose a flame to burn off the smoke. If I'm working green coal I keep a close eye on the fire and when I have a bright hot heart I go to work. Keeping the fire going is the problem you're asking about, from reading I think you are keeping a too shallow fire. You don't need a hive fire but it needs to be deep enough to work AND keep green (uncoked) coal around it to coke as you pack it into the center. Okay, short version, light your fire and pile coal a few inches deep all around it. Use a shovel and scrape green coal towards the center and pack it down. This keeps freshly coked coal available to the fire while coking the next batch without choking clouds of smoke. If you need a closed fire just close the top from the close sides and pack it with the shovel but lightly. THEN pull more coal to the sides to keep you in fuel. Don't sweat it, fire tending is one of the more tricky aspects of the craft, heck, every student I cranked up a coal forge and made them use whined nonstop. <snicker> I hope you find something helpful in my ramblyness. Frosty the Lucky.</snicker> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Huntress Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 awesome/ thanks guys... really do appreciate the tips here..... yesterday morning I had a better day.... I had a nice deep fire of hot coals and got thru the job I needed to do. And yes Frosty I mean the air gate...I normally start off with green coal. So far my best method for lighting has been paper with kindling sticks from the woods but I can't be doing that in the winter months. I'm not about to go collecting sticks with deep snow fall. So coke is the whitish looking coal that hasn't been fully burned yet? Do you guys use charcoal to get started at all? I better do some more reading... okay again thanks you guys for the tips on the technique... it's huge for us greenhorns...go figure when I bought the coal I was thinking, ya big baseball size coal for big fire... but I was looking in the gallery and saw one guys pics of his forge and it's filled with the 3/4" size... but I found that out I've been breaking it up.... good thing I only bought 3 bags....... can't wait to finally be able to post pics again..... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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