heat treating hammers

[larnotlars]

Hi All.

I have 2 projects that I am up to that I should have done more research on before starting. At least they are modest ones.

1- I am making a war ax out of an old ball peen hammer. I have aspirations of drawing the blade to bearded ax dimensions, but it is not working as well as intended. When it comes time to heat treat, I was intending to use quenchtex A and temper to a purple 3 times each (yeah, I hang out with blade people). Is it better to just forge heat and harden the edge (1 inch) and let it temper with retained heat? Suggestions? (I also have an old tub o peanut oil and of course water).

2- I am making a double diagonal peen hammer 45 degree to the right on one face and left on the other to use on texturing leaves and other items. It was originally a 3 lb hand sledge from a surplus store. How do I temper the peens?

3- I have been borrowing a hammer tongs to work on both projects, but I won't have access to them anymore. I have not been able to find hammer tongs anywhere online. Has anyone seen them?

Thanks for any help!

Lar

[Francis Trez Cole]

The Brian Brazeal Europian style tongs work great and are easy to make there is a woop tong by Uri Hofi that works as well you can find those under blue prints. I have never purposed a hammer I make mine from bar stock.

[ThomasPowers]

1 How is the war axe going to get used? Display---why harden? Wood chopping---purple should be fine *depending on what alloy the original hammer head was* (There is not *1* alloy that has been used for hammer heads all over the world for the last 100 years you know...) Differential harden or temper (or both) would be nice for a using example especially if you demo it against sheet metal---and the alloy doesn't crack at the quench line.

2 Try to figure out the general alloy by the spark test and harden for that alloy and then do a differential temper by sticking hot drifts in the handle eye. Now how hard you like your hammer faces is something *I* don't know so temper it till it's they way *you* like it and then quench in water to stop it.

3 Find a local blacksmith who can make or modify a set of tongs for you. I pick up some large old tongs just to have preforms that are easily modded into specialty tongs for projects.

[larnotlars]

Thanks for the help. I know that I was kind of sketchy on the details. The war ax is going to be mostly to laugh about, but I'm sure that it's a matter of time before someone grabs it and tries to make it stick in my Walnut tree. I think that the differential hardening is the way to go. I can do the multiple drifts.

I will look up Brian's blue prints. I have made quite a few half tongs, but have not gotten a set that seemed worth the rivit yet.

Thanks again!

Lar

[pkrankow]

3) Make a pair. You know you will have to learn to make tongs at some point because you really want to.

Phil

[ThomasPowers]

A lot of people seem to be afraid of failing and so don't get a lot done. Blacksmithing is a craft that you have to practice! You wouldn't expect to become a concert violinist if you never practiced because you might get a note wrong would you? Every time you fail you are just one step closer to getting it done *RIGHT*---if you learn from your failures. The scrap pile is perfectly happy to accept all the "oops that didn't work" items you can produce.

This is why we suggest people work on knives before trying swords. We *KNOW* that they will make a lot of mistakes learning and making them faster and closer together is a *good* thing. Less likely to forget than if you have months in between large blades to forget.

One method to refine your skills is to make that item every time you fire up the forge if it's a small item or say once a month if it's a daylong item. After a year you may find that your are *good* at it and the day long item is now an hour in the morning and people start hinting as to how they would like you to sell them the stuff you are making...

[larnotlars]

Yeah, I have the shortcoming of not wanting to finish projects that are not turning out the way that I want them to. Fortunately, I tend to make 1 hr to 3 day projects more often. I'm getting pretty good at making Jhooks with a leaf covering the screw hole, and am working on my first set of fire tools (opened twist handles).

I proudly have a 2 foot tall stack of busted chain links that I have discarded, but have made several feet of working chain.

I'm trying to figure out how I want to proportion the hammer tongs. I can't seem to find any to model for them except the ones that I borrowed, and they were clearly done with a power hammer, the joint is 1/2 inch by 2 inches on each side.... I could buy 1/2 * 2 and reduce the jaws and reins to a welding scarf, but that seems like a lot of 3lb hammer blows. On the other hand, I could use 1 inch bar. Still alot of hammer'in, but more likely to get an uneven joint.

Oh well, it will be a few days until I get going... probably will try first with the 1 inch square since I have that...

We'll see!

Lar

[pkrankow]

Brian Brazeal makes a set from some coil spring.


Phil

[pkrankow]

I am sure you will find a use for those broken links. They make good tong rings at least.

Phil

[larnotlars]

Thanks a lot Phil! I have the coil spring downstairs! I just need to figure out how to cut it (gas burner won't fit, and I don't have enough ventilation in the shop for the coal burner yet... I might be reassembling the coal burner in the driveway this afternoon!

[pkrankow]

Zip disk, measure your coil out with a tape or string, then wack them off. You *should* be able to get a portion of the spring up to bending temperature with it in the entrance of the forge. Its not the fun way, but it gets the job done. Once you get the spring opened up part way it gets easier.

Phil

[larnotlars]

I'm doing a dry run with plain stock. So far I have found out that my slitting chisel is to big for the drift/rivet combination that I have... On the bright side, Pieh tools has My Life as an Artist Blacksmith by Francis Whittaker for $23... I'm not sure if I'll use the cutting disk from the angle grinder or try to hold it in front of the forge... My forge is a Chili habenero... it heats well, but the opening is tiny.

I'd love to use the coal burner, but dang, I hate carrying everything out into the sunlight... Who knows, maybe I'll get really lazy and heat it with a carburizing acetylene flame.

Hmmm, I wonder how well sucker rod would work?

[Frank Turley]

Lar,

Y'all are makin' me fall asleep.

Come to Santa Fe for a couple of days, and we'll get it all done.

Frank T.

[ThomasPowers]

That is an offer not to be lightly turned down!

I'd try to pass myself off as Lars save that Mr Turley knows me by sight!

[Glenn Gilmore]

Me too. I would love to spend a couple of days with Mr. Turley.

[larnotlars]

I spent a week at his class 3 years ago. I learned how to forge weld much more effectively than I had prior, how to chamfer, better ways to draw down metal, how to make punches and heat treat. Hopefully I will be able to go back soon.

Once upon a time I thought that I would learn by trying and making my own mistakes... I never dreamed that there were so many mistakes to make, and so little time!

[larnotlars]

Oh Yeah, An update on the tongs...

I am making them with 7/8 coil. The drawing is making my arms turn into rubber, but it is good practice. I'm working from the tip so will start half facing the jaws today. I have larger rivits on the way from Pieh so they should be here when I am ready to punch and drift. Hopefully pics will follow.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

If you haven't made tongs before, there is one rule you must learn. Left, Left, Left or Right, Right Right, Not a Variable!!

1 - Start the jaw on the near side of the anvil, half faced blows to set the shoulder, enough material for whatever jaw design you wish. DON'T MAKE THE BASE OF THE JAW TOO THIN!!

2 - "TURN 1/4 TURN LEFT" if you are right handed or "TURN 1/4 TURN RIGHT" if you are left handed. On the far side of the anvil at about 30 degree angle, at the shoulder that you had made in the first step, half faces blows to set the start of the hinge area, with an angle so the two halves of the tongs won't bind up an the base of the jaws. DON'T MAKE THE HINGE AREA TOO THIN, Minimum 1/4".

3 - "TURN 1/4 TURN LEFT" if you are right handed or "TURN 1/4 TURN RIGHT" if you are left handed. On the far side of the anvil at a 90 degree angle, at the end of the hinge area, half faced blows to start the base of the reins. DO NOT MAKE THE BASE OF THE REIN TOO THIN!! Start to draw out the rein, about 2-3 inches, Turn the tong end for end, grab the jaw of the tong with other tongs. Start to draw out the rein from the base of the rein, NOT THE END/TIP!!! Work about 3 inches at a time, draw the taper and break the edges of the rein as you go (IMPORTANT). When you have two reins done, match up the lengths of the reins, draw out or cut a little off of one and redraw to match length.

4 - Punch the hole for the rivet. I use 3/8" material for the rivet.

5 - Make a rivet from 3/8" mild steel in a header. Allow approx. 2 diameters long for the head of the rivet (3/8=3/4")

6 - Finish the shaping of the jaws. Can use a bolt and nut in the rivet hole to check the jaw shape.

7 - Heat up the rivet, use a rivet block on the anvil to support the rivet head (from damage). Put the rivet through both tong pieces (the tong pieces are not hot) and quickly hammer the rivet to form the other head. At this point the tongs are seized together with the rivet.

8 - Heat up the hinge area of the tongs and gently work the ends of the reins until the hinge is free. Put a piece of 3/8 round at the base of the reins and gently squeeze the reins to bend the reins so they will hang on the tong rack without the reins sticking out. Align the jaws to the shape you wish.

9 - Heat up the reins close to the hinge area and pull the reins, left rein to the right, right rein to the left, While holding the new tongs in a vise. Hold the point of the reins where they cross, with another set of tongs, and bend the left rein left and the right rein right. This will align the reins over top of each other and will allow anyone to use them, right or left handed.

10 - Finish the reins like you are PROUD of them. Give them the BRAILLE test, close your eyes and run your hands over them. THERE SHOULD BE NO SHARP EDGES on the reins. There should be lots of material at the base of the reins and jaws (the fulcrum point is the rivet. If you squeeze the reins it should not bend at the base of the jaws or reins).

11 - I make all my tongs from mild steel (preferably). This way you won't have the tongs crack if you accidentally quench them while hot.

The rule for drawing out anything is S.O.R. Square, Octagonal, Round.

Enjoy the journey, Be Proud of what you make.

[ThomasPowers]

I must admit that I tend to size my materials for the size of the work and would never claim there is only *1* size to use. Tongs for holding 1.5" round tend to be heftier in construction than tongs engineered for 0.25" work.