monty Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Can mild steel be used for bottom fullers? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Do you want a tool that is used for only one short run project, or a tool that you are going to use on a daily basis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 Can mild steel be used for bottom fullers? Thanks Of course it can.... If you are only going to forge HOT steel/iron on it, and can avoid hitting it with your hammer and/or top tools. In general though, it would be better to use at least a medium carbon steel to ensure endurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 5, 2011 Share Posted August 5, 2011 You can use old woody carrots as bottom fullers. They won't work worth a ^&*(, but you can use them. In general I try to use automobile leaf or coil springs for such tooling as they come in a number of diameters (I have one coil spring from an earth mover that is made from stock 1.25" in diameter!) This is normally easy to scrounge at a cheap cost and heat treat can be done using blacksmith methods---for a new person I would suggest just normalizing it. If you wear it out, *then* do a better heat treat on the next one; should take you years before making that next one and you will be much better prepared to do a fancier heat treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake pogrebinsky Posted August 6, 2011 Share Posted August 6, 2011 Sounds sensible,Thomas,shock and impact resistance engineered for alloys. At the risk of sounding dumb:Why HT hot-work tools? Monty,mild is perfectly usable,but as stated-repeated,the durability is an issue.Mild will deform with each use,less if of a simpler form,but still some. Personally,i avoid production runs on principle,so it's often convenient and practical to make a tool out of mild,and later re-make it for next project.(That way all i make is "bespoke" ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Well what I have noticed is that the parts hitting the hot soft metal do OK but the parts you pound on tend to mushroom more than you would like and *that* is what ends up causing you to make a new one. So a HTand then a draw up to a temp that the tool *might* get to with hard work and no cooling can make it last longer. Another method is to weld on a sacrificial hammering bar; but you have to mess with HT doing that anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Menard Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 A very useful technique is to case harden the bottom tool with kasenite case hardening compound. This can extend the life of a tool you are hammering hot steel into generally past your lifetime. It is inexpensive and a pound of it lasts a good long time. To use, form the tool to your specification, heat to cherry/orange, sprinkle kasenite on, be aware it can smell like you sprinkled a dead mouse on it. Let it crust up then bring the piece back up to temp, cherry to dull orange. Plunge into cold water. often there is a loud pop or bang as steam blows the coating off. This makes the most of inexpensive and easy to forge mild steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 I made a guillotine-fuller with the working parts of mild steel (A36). I arc welded round rod on top of the sliding rectangular sections. I've used it fairly requently for five years with no appreciable wear. A36 is pretty tough and some of it approaches 0.27 carbon content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 The bulk of my tooling is made from manurealloy ( new hot rolled ). In reality I have yet to wear out any tooling and some of it has seen a ton of use. This doesn't mean that I haven't made anything from sucker rod or other higher carbon or h-13 or broken breaker bar handles or rake teeth. It just means that I use what I think is appropriate. I have a handled top fuller that I ground the striker head to a nice ball. It is used for specific tasks ( fits a specific bottom tool). HOT use like a hammer head. If I use it as a top tool and strike the nice ground head it dents and I have to refinish it. Needless to say I don't do that. I have probobly 6-8 choices of ball end hammers and this is just one of them that happens to have a top fuller on the other end that CAN be used as a straight pien but seldom is. I also have pieces of 1/4 and 3/8 plate that I have cut into circles and forged into the swage block. These have had driver handles (which after a lot of use will need dressed) welded to them and are various diameters of top tools that can be used to finish up forgings after the initial driving into the swage and other tooling with ball hammers. I have a junk hammer that I use to drive handled tooling. Working hot steel with mild tooling is fine with me unless it has a specific need. I know fellas that have mild as power hammer tooling and given the specific needs, they work fine within the limitations of hot metal ( this is mild steel hot I am speaking of). Forging alloy or higher carbon steel really is better done with harder tooling. Trying to fuller 5160 is a good example but as has been stated when you heat treat tooling and then forge a lot on it with bloody hot 3/8 leaf spring the heat treat in the tooling may head south ( no pun intended to the boys in Mississippi or South Africa lol ). Tougher steel in tooling makes sense for some applications but I don't waste my time ( or stock from the short piece boxes) most of the time. Consider that the horn of forged wrought iron anvils is just that. Wrought. It takes an incredible amount of beating when you draw hot on it. Strike it cold ( like adjusting cold shoes ) and you have seen the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I have noticed that we seem to have become a "maintenance adverse" culture. People want to just buy something, use it and never have to do anything to it until it's time to throw it away and buy another. I still use my mothers kabar kitchen knife bought for her second wedding anniversary in 1956---the year of my birth. A plain high carbon steel blade it has to be wiped clean after using and sharpened every now and then. I expect my kids will fight over who gets it when my wife and I pass on... Tools are much the same; after use they may need maintenance; grinding a mushroom off, straightening, oiling; sometimes even re-forging or replacing! If you are willing to put the time in it doesn't matter as much what you use as almost any steel alloy will have some use life as a smithing tool. I have worn out and replaced tools that I use heavily and if there is a tool I like that seems to be "wearing faster than I would like" I may reproduce it in a better alloy for that use. (I admit I tend to try to find another one like it cheap at the fleamarket first...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I have a thin hot chisel that is made out of A-36. Works OK on HOT iron, as long as it is frequently cooled. It is not by any stretch an excellent material choice. If the material is cooled to red, or I let the chisel sit on the hot metal too long then it mashes and needs re-dressed, 5 seconds on the belt grinder. I made the tool in 5 minutes, 2 heats, because I couldn't find my good hot chisel made from coil spring and I wanted to do some veining on a leaf. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Phil---isn't it great when you realize that you can *make* a tool faster than finding one you already have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Phil---isn't it great when you realize that you can *make* a tool faster than finding one you already have! Yes, yes it is. Still haven't found the good chisel, but I haven't cleaned the workbench down to the wood since then either. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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