Ferguson Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I was wondering what is the biggest blacksmith power hammer in production today? I noticed that Anyang, Sahinler, and Iron Kiss top out around 150 pound head weight. Obviously the Nazel hammers were much larger than 150 pounds, but I understand that production ceased in 1973. If somebody needed a large hammer, would they need to find an old hammer, and probably rebuild it? Or maybe there is somebody in Europe or Asia building huge hammers. For purposes of this discussion I would lump mechanical, self-contained air, and utility air hammers together, and just measure the hammer by the weight of the head. It looks like most of the commercial hammers are self-contained air hammers, which I understand would include the Nazel hammers. This is purely an idle curiosity question, as I have no need for large power hammer. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Im sure james could jump in and tell you how big of Anyang he could bring over.. My guess is the only limit is your pocket book.. They are still building "BIG" hammers And I bet there are US manufactures that build the big industrial machines (1000 lb +) Massy still is producing big hammers.. not sure how big but big.. Say Mak has available up to 100KG hammers (220 lb) but to date I dont think there is one in the US, I have talked about being the first... So to answer your question though I think a 330lb Anyang is as big as is normaly shipped over but not the biggest available by far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferguson Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I looked harder, and found the Anyang web site, rather than the site of the US distributor. They show hammers up to 2000kg head weight (4400 pounds). As you say, it is a matter of your pocketbook, the big hammers are available, but not imported on a regular basis.Anyang hammer web site Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinculo Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 According to the web sight Phoenix makes a 3000lb hammer. Not sure if you'd call that a "production hammer" or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Lasco, ceco/ajax, and others still build what we would call "monsters". Btw most of the manufacturers are avoiding air, they are using high speed hydraulic hammers on things above 2k head weight (mostly). There are still very, very large tup weight air hammer that are used in production (ie think 10 k and up tups), but they are older ceco's n chambersburgs. If you have a giant piece that needs forging, say 40" cross section, they move toward presses vs hammers now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Back in the 70's Don Hawley had a 25,000 pound hammer in his shop in Frisco. At one time Bethlehem steel had a 125 TON hammer, that's a quarter million pounds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I had heard that Ladish in Milwaukee had to buy the bowling alley some 1/2 mile away during WW2 production because the hammers there knocked over the pins....of so my Dad told me..he is of that vintage. The tour I took there years ago showed a line of "small" hammers..maybe 2,000 weight?... in a row stretching at least ten hammers long, maybe more...no photos allowed in that place though. I would think at some point hydraulic presses have replaced large hammers... Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeatGuy Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Here is a little info on a very large steam hammer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creusot_steam_hammer brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstermetal Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Jorgenson Forge here in Seattle still has two hammers I have had the good fortune to see... There "little" hammer is 600 ton and the "big" hammer is 5000 ton.... Both are hydraulic hammers, the 5000 ton is a 4 post/ guide system.. the dies are about 2' X 4' and 3' thick.... The manipulator they use is CNC and weighs 260 tons and runs on rail.... Here is the Say Mak web site... They make lots of machinery Say Mak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Open die hammers seem to top out at around 12 ton tup weight, the Chinese seem to quite regularly make hydraulic hammers this size. The squeezers seem to come into their own for larger billets. Self contained hammers seldom go above 4500# ram weight. Ive talked to a few of the 'old timers' that used to work on hammer development at Massey and basically they stop working right at much over 2 ton, you are asking to much from the volume of air that can be produced in a single throw compressor in one stroke. On the massey 2 ton self contained hammers (clear space) you only have a bottom clearance on the compressor piston of 3/8" ! thats not a lot for a piston cycling once a second that weights well over a ton! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Nowak Posted May 21, 2011 Share Posted May 21, 2011 As far as US made hammers go, I am not aware of any new production other than what is being done for the blacksmithing community. Ceco/chambursburg/Erie/Niles etc are no longer in buisness. I'm jot sure if Ajax is still in buisness and I they are I don't think they make hammers. They made mechincal presess and upsetting equipement. Let's also be clear about the distingtion between hammers and presses. There are hydraulic hammers, though I don't know how many and I've never seen one in person. Most hammers are either powered by steam or air. Presses on the other hand are quite common and that is what we have at Scot Forge and what is at Jorgensen Forge and many of the other forge shops. Open die presses can be found up to 18,000 tons in China and 16,000 in Japan. I think the largest open die press in the US is 10,000 tons. Presses used for closed die work can have much greater tonnage. Alcoa has one that is a 50,000 ton capacity and I think there are larger ones available. As far a hammers go, the biggest closed die hammer I know of in the US is 50,000 lbs. There are several of these around the contry. Open die hammers tend to be much smaller now than years ago simply because they've been replaced by presses. At Scot Forge our largest working hammers are 8000 ram weight. We do have a 10,000 lb machine that has yet to be installed. These are all old machines that have been refurbished. In industry that is what I think most shops would do. Old hammers are fairly common and you know that when you buy old US iron you get quality equipment, even if a rebuild is required. Closed die hammers are presses are so much larger becuase it takes a great deal of force to make metal fill the die. In open die work the metal is free to move on the sides not in contact with the dies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Here's a 50,000#er text claims the total weight is 500 tons (One million pounds!!) Big Hammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Nowak Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 On big hammers, it is pretty typical for the anvil alone to weight 15-20 times the weight of the ram so in the example sited above, at total machine weight of 1 million pounds is actually probably pretty typical. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Here's a 50,000#er text claims the total weight is 500 tons (One million pounds!!) Big Hammer Everyone notice the guy standing next to the ram and the two guys standing up next to the cylinder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Everyone notice the guy standing next to the ram and the two guys standing up next to the cylinder? Those have to be action figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 this is me last year, with the top half of an anvil from a drop stamp, gotta be getting on 150 tons for this bit alone! im getting on 6'4 for reference, and im not standing right next to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Here's a 50,000#er text claims the total weight is 500 tons (One million pounds!!) Big Hammer What's weird about that article is that alcoa uses (if I remember correctly) a 35k steam hammer to forge out aluminum propeller blades for the c-130....Grant/John/Patrick, people have mentioned to me that if there is a bunch of condensate pooled in a big hammer when it gets hit by the first bunch of steam during a shift, that it can flash and damage the hammer. True? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonjic Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 The only live steam hammer I have experience on is the one at iron bridge museum in the uk, looks about a 3 or 4 ton machine. The condensate is drained out regularly, and the hammer is warmed with steam for a good half hour before it strikes a blow when started up. Sounds like a myth to me. I do know if to much condesate builds up the operators get a hot shower when it blows past the piston rod packings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbruce Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 John please,''150 tons for this *BIT* alone''..............You lot across the pond have a penchant for understatement! That baby is a HUNK.............:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 At the Henry Vogt Machine Co, All of our hammers were steam, closed die Eries. Smallest was 1500# biggest was 25,000#. 28 hammers total if I recall correctly. All ran on 145# steam. When the 25,000# broke the anvil, it was removed from service and we quit making the biggest forgings. When the anvil was pulled, it was amazingly tall and massive, and it was the anvil not the base or subplate! The 15,000# and 10,000# as well as a slew of 7500# and 5000# all worked on till about 1995 when the conversion to all presses was made. They had a 7000 ton, 5000# and a slew of 2300 and 1600 ton mechanicals, all closed die. Over in the boiler shop we had a 1300 ton water hydraulic open die press, used for making domed heads and for straightening structuals such as 24" wide beam and 36" I-beam. Came to crooked to use from the mill, so we straightened in the big press. When the structuals became too long to handle as we went to bigger modules, I had a 1000 tom portable straightening press made up. Moved the press down the lenght of the structual rather than moveing the structual under the press. Steam condensate is very hard on everthing if live steam is cycled onto it. Because the water is nearly incompressable things tend to break, seals burst, pipes rupture and generally everybody has a really bad rotten horrible day. That is one of the reasons steam hammer tup even when not actually forging. The steam is going to be evaporated by the steam generator and has to go somewhere, it might as well flow thru the piping valving and keep everything hot and dry. We would open a little 1" bypass on the 8" steam main to allow the condensate to be blow out and the entire header piping to warm, usually opening the bypass about an hour before shift. When the shift workers arrived on Monday morning that hour had warmed up the piping and condensate lines from the powerhouse and back, and all through the forge shop. Then the hammer drains were opens, and once dry steam was seen, the hammer would be started to tup just a little, and the tup stroke increased until normal. The forges would have been filled an hour eary and would about ready once the hammers were. Steam is an unforgiving whitch. Can do powerful magic, but if not handled correctly a curse will fall upon the shop, and things get badly wrong and people hurt or killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.F. Thumann Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Thanks for the info Ptree, it's good to hear from the guys who ran the big steam boys back when steam was king:) You should be very proud:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptree Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 My involvement with those big hammers was I was the supervisor of the pipefitters who ran the staem lines, and the powerhouse that made the steam to run them. Did a lot of quality troubleshooting in the forge shop in another position there. I worked for Henry Vogt Machine co for 17 years, followed by 4 more with a follow on that bought the valve and fitting division. In my early days there I was also the tourguide for customer groups, and was encourgaged to learn everything I could so as to be able to accuratly answer questions. Since we had a 43 acre compound of shops that ran from heavy machining to high production machining, to huge utility boiler manufacture as well as Ice making equipment. I got to sastify my techno-freak every day for 21 years. And yes every single tour produced a question that was new, and so I would run down the answer, and communicate that to the customer, usually before they left. Made them feel good about how we cared, and I got to learn new stuff every day. That was a once in a lifetime, in the right place at the right time, wonderful job to have and I miss it every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAllcorn Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 This company (http://www.agostamachines.com/contact.htm) has the following for sale. They are in Oxnard CA. 1500 & 2500 LB C frame open die Erie Hammers 50,000 LB Forging Hammer (new) 6000 LB open die, single arch Chambersburg Hammer Anyone interested can obtain a free subscription to FORGING MAGAZINE by going to http://www.forgingmagazine.com/enewsletter/ I have subscribed for several years. It is interesting to look at. JA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scurry57 Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hey guys....New member here just joined. Im a union boilermaker and I work in a forge shop that runs all steam hammers. Our smallest hammer is 2,000# pedal hammer and our largest hammer is a 25,000# lever erie steam hammer. Im sure there are larger hammers than ours out there but there is nothing like working next to one of these big hammers! I have several videos and pictures of a few of our units in action if your guys are interested? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Sculpture Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Naw... Not me, I don't like em... Where you located, can we come play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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