JPH Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Oh well.....anyone know anything about hydraulics?? I am working on Julius Squeezer and all of a sudden I hear this horrendous BANG!! the sound of spraying water and well I have bright red hydraulic fluid spraying all over my studio at 3500 PSI... Looking like I blew a seal at the solenoid on the egress to the pump...Now..what do I do besides spread kitty litter all over the floor and wipe up the fluid???.. Are we talking new solenoid or??? I mean I know pretty much nothing about fluid dynamics and hydraulic systems so HELP!!! JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latvius Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I used to work on hydraulic test stands in the Air Force. With the bang sound, I would think you should be able to visually see where a line ruptered or something like that. Usually the hydraulics have o-rings at the connection point. If you don't see a ruptered line or something similar check the O-ring at the conection. When you put the lines back together don't use tephlon tape, hydraulic fliuid makes it a gummy mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 with a big bang, I suggest castrophic failure somewhere. Basic troubleshooting should take you to the problem. Fortunately you were not standing near the 3500 psi leak. Fluid injection into the body is incredibly nasty and many do not survive it. Did you build this system Jim or is it a MFG'd item ? There should be a mfgr name on the solonoid. I was in Aircraft Hydraulics in the Navy but thats been long time ago and I really haven't had a whole lot of experience in day to day troubleshooting since then ( besides brakes and other common vehicle and common shop stuff ). I am sure there are folks here that can help, just gotta be patient. Actually this problem may be pretty simple to find and to fix. Like the man above my post, may be as simple as an "O"ring. I have a good selection abailable here. Glad you are safe. 10-4 on the oil dry. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Howdy: Ok...I was mistaken..it is not on the egress to the pump it is on the ingress FROM the pump so it is under high pressure... There are no ruptured lines, they are all A-ok....after puttering about and coming up with several new profane combinations it looks like the leak is between the solenoid frame and the hose fitting. I cannot tighten the fitting down any further, it leaks like a sieve, so...I dunno.. I see no evidence of an "O" ring..might be inside still... As far as the make..it is a "Northman" brand Solenoid Operated Directional Valve Mfg #7072, so it says on the mfg plate...I am pretty sure I can find these anywhere that sells hydraulic components but I will take it apart and see what the deal is if there is a blown out "O" ring or whatever is in there...could be a dollar fix vs a 300$$$ one... As far as safety goes..you all must realise I am the worlds biggest chicken.. I have no qualms about admitting that I am the quintessential "coward" when it comes to high pressure stuff...ALL the plumbing is on the back side of Julius just in case something like this did ever happen...It's just one great big mess...that's all...well that's why I had three kids..to help clean up!! I got about 40# of kitty litter sopping up the mess....will let that "absorb" the rest of the evening and then scoop it up and get it outta here...Sigh....why does this stuff always seem to happen when it's a rush project?? JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Does the fitting itself have the leak? Is the fitting ORB (o-ring base seal), JIC, NPT, flange seal or ORFS (o-ring face seal)? If it was indeed an o-ring, check to ensure that doesn't display damage from installation. What is the normal operating and maximum allowable pressure of the system? There is an extremely large difference between some thing that operates at 2800 and 3500 psi. If the failure is from over-pressure, verify the other components are functioning correctly. Let me know as hydraulics are something that HAS to be perfect. Make sure that if you only need to replace the o-ring(s), don't cheap out... the difference between a one dollar o-ring and a three dollar o-ring is about fourty gallons of oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 When you get all the kitty litter swept up you can put down some ordinary sawdust which does a wonderful job of wicking up oil. Also to finish cleaning any oil up, use dawn dishwashing liquid and water as dawn breaks up oil and it dissolves into the water then. Also teflon tape is not an option on hydraulics as they recommend you stick some over the end of a fitting when taping the fitting. The action of screwing the fitting in, cuts off whats sticking over the end and if you don't have a filter on the system It will get into motors and pumps and as its super slick, it will build up and push the pump or especially motors apart. Also teflon tape makes things so slick tightening like you would normally will sometimes split fittings from overtightening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Jim there is a product called Spagsorb, it is polomarized peat moss, very light in weight, picks up oil like a sponge, it is hydrocarbon selective, that is it will pick up petroleum products but not water. Works much faster and better than kitty litter and much lighter if you have to pay for disposal, they charge by the pound. Woody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Pook Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 post pics if you can. Is it an electric solenoid block? It is possible you cracked the block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Update: Ok...I undid the valve and the hose in question after three turns the male fitting was very loose and was "wobbling" in the female hole...Now this isn't a "good thing" now is it?? The other hoses were snug all the way out. The male fitting looks OK but I will replace that as well.. The valave in question is a Northman # SWH-GO3-C6-R120-10 Does anyone know where I can get a replacement?? I called Northman and they do not sell direct and the gentleman on the phone says there are no distributors in my area.. Dang..well...any ideas>> JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BT Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Jim Northern tool carries Northman brandof soleniod valves. http://www.northerntool.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Howdy: well after pulling the valve and all...the baseplate is cracked...BIG crack from the inlet port right on out to the edge...after talking to the folks at Northman they suggested that since I do not have any idea as to why the thing cracked that I should replace the whole valve.. Now I don't have a hydraulic test bench so I have a new valave coming in from them along with a new baseplate, these folks bent over backwards to help me and even sold me one at wholesale cuase there wasn't a distributor close to me... Talk about customer service...it is refreshing in this day and age to see a company go that extra bit to help "a little guy" out....And they want the old valave back to see why it did this..they said at 3500 PSI it should of "switched over" to bypass if it loaded above that.. Great folks those are!! So it will be here in about a week......oh the threads are 1/2" pip thread for a "tubing" connection....I already have the new fittings coming if from the house of hose here in Henderson........now...do I dope these connections??? Anyway, thanks for all the advise...I do appreciate it...now how do I put in a over pressure relief vale and where on the line to I put it and where do I run it to??? Fun fun fun in Henderson, Nevada JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Jim If you can find a distributer in my area,,Glendale/Phx I will pick the part up and stick it in a brown truck...need pics of all sides and data to take with me to pick part up Rich Hale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 Rich: I appreciate the offer...but the parts are already on their way to me from Northman...Like I said they really were a GREAT HELP..It's nice to know that a company will do that to help out one of their customers... THANK YOU...if you need anything from up this way let me know....dice clock..."Shady Lady" tokens...ya know the usual Vegas stuff...Pics of Elvis on Black velvet.... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Pook Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 If its a tapered pipe thread, use teflon. I personally use teflon tape not the liquid pipe dope.Seems to be less messy and less likely to get in the hydraulic system. Just make sure you get nothing in the valve stay a thread or 2 away from the end of the fitting. For the pressure relief valve, I'd install it on the pressure line that makes the ram extend. I'd most likely just add some fittings at the valve and have it t'd off before it changes to hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 18, 2006 Author Share Posted December 18, 2006 For the pressure relief valve, I'd install it on the pressure line that makes the ram extend. I'd most likely just add some fittings at the valve and have it t'd off before it changes to hose.> Chris: I was thinking I might put it in right in front of the solenoid where the ingress goes in. This is where it blew and well..if I put the relief valve there it SHOULD prevent any sort of excess pressure buildup before the valve and well..that should do it right?? Now where do I vent the pressure relief valve to?/ do I have to run a new return to the tank or can I splice in to the return from the cylinder?? I will say that running a new return to the tank would be easiest as it's just a matter of running a hose and a couple of fittings... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Pook Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 that will work as long as its after the check valve from the pump. relief goes to the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latvius Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 Hydraulic pressure is equal pressure in all directions, so as long as you put the relief valve on the high pressure side, it really doesn't matter where it is. In my experience tephlon tape is only good for water and air lines, but I never said I knew everything :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 Just as a refresher course... if it threads together by hand ( fingers ) it is not pipe thread. O ring is straight thread. JIC is a flare. Neither need dope or tape. THese are things you folks know but just thought I'd bring it up. Tapered pipe thread of course needs doped ( if you prefer tape ). Either sealant of course should stay outside of the system. O ring or JIC can either one be over tightened as well ( which is my experience with teflon on pipe thread ). We all different. High pressure hydraulics are dangerous systems and should be treated with extreme care when maintaining ( 4 wire ). Of course these would be flex lines I speak of. Standard steel lines and fittings deserve same care. Low pressure is of course dangerous as well (2 wire ). If you suspect you have a leak and pass your hand over the suspected leak, high pressure hydraulics are capable of amputating the appendage and injecting you with oil. Be safe. My nickels worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Howdy!! Ok..I got Julius up and running WITH a over pressure relief valve installed and he's back to squeezing things A-OK.. I have attached a photo of what I did....man that base plate cracked.. the hole is an oval!!! There were chunks of iron in the valve port and one of the solenoids is jammed...methinks that is what caused the overpressure... Anyway it should be dealt with now...it was an expensive lesson but a lesson well learned. JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Dean Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Wow, I've been turning wrenches for 15 years on farm equipment and never seen a valve body split like that. I'm glad there were no injuries with that failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 DD: Well when I break something I BREAK it...no half efforts on my part when it comes to total destruction... Talk about T&E learning... well the mess is cleaned up and I am back to smashing things so this is good... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidquality Posted January 5, 2007 Share Posted January 5, 2007 Glad to know you are ok. Did you decide to put up a few barriers just in case this happens again to minimise the swath of destruction? or are you running as it was before? Glad to hear you're up and running again. Hopefully you're not too far behind on that hot project. And don't forget to let us know if they ever decide to tell you what happened, should be an interesting find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted January 5, 2007 Author Share Posted January 5, 2007 Candid: well once I get Julius broken dopwn for the upcoming move (oh I am so NOT looking forward to that...) I will enlcose all the valaves and sltt in a heavy duty plastic tub just is case his happens again. As it is I am a bit behind but I shall catch up in the next few days. The reapirs cost me some $$$ that I didn;t have planned but old Julius will pay for that in a couple of day's worth of work on the time he saves me NOT having to flatten and true by hand. All in all it could of been much worse than it was... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Hammers Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Dr. Jim, this is just a question and a suggestion. Do you have an element filter on the system ? Perhaps this has been mentioned in a prior post and if so My apologies. You can plumb a screw on filter in the return line (suction ). If I understand it correctly, the failure was from system contamination ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Patrick Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 JPH, The equipment I work with for cnc sheetmetal fabrication has alot of hydraulic circuits. The main one on our punch shear machines run at 480 BAR. That translates to about 6900 PSI @ aroung 100 liters a minute. One of our customers I visited on a service call ruptered a steel Pressure line to the punching head while in production. Luckily it burst up, so no one was hurt. The jet coming out of a 50mm steel pressure line at that pressure is enough to kill you. The funny part was when I arrived there to make repairs 12 hours after it had happened, there was still hydraulic oil dripping from the ceiling and light fixtures 18 feet up. It covered the working surfaces of the machine, the control cabinet, everywhere. The machine shut itself down when it saw the drop of circuit pressure, but it still ran long enough to pump close to 35 gallon of oil everywhere. I worked with these machines and others for many years that run hydraulics. ALWAYS exercise mucho mucho respect for hydraulic pressure. Be safe!!!!!! OH FYI,, if your gloves get soaked in any oil, and you want to salvage them,, just bury them in kitty litter overnight. It draws it right out. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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