Welding pipe onto flat surfaces

[maddog]

In making various shop fixtures, I often have occaision to weld the side of a piece of pipe to a flat surface. Welding a butt end is easy but the pipe wall against a piece of flat stock makes a deep narrow gap that's hard to fill. I can get them welded but I'd like to know, is there a good way to do this?

A similar but more difficult problem is to weld where two pipes cross each other.

Thanks for any tips or advice

[SGropp]

Lay a short piece of round rod on each side of the pipe and run a bead to the pipe and the plate.

[eric sprado]

I'm an old pipe welder that hasn't gone to wire welding yet.Though I should and will soon. But- When I have that situation I use 6010(or6011 depending on your machine) at a really high setting and lay in a good deep root pass.You need it hot to get down in there..

[arftist]

Those are both good suggestions, another is drill a couple holes in the plate and plug weld it to the pipe.

[Dragons lair]

How come nobody says take a welding course or offering to teach how to do it? How many posters are welders?
Here is my questions Is your airplane going to stay up. your submarine stay down.your nuke stay cool. Ask your self
can I weld unde a 40X microscope or a 4,000 lb turbine. if not please say so

[arftist]

How come nobody says take a welding course or offering to teach how to do it? How many posters are welders?
Here is my questions Is your airplane going to stay up. your submarine stay down.your nuke stay cool. Ask your self
can I weld unde a 40X microscope or a 4,000 lb turbine. if not please say so

I doubt anyone facing those circumstances would post a question here.

For making shop fixtures, any of the methods mentioned woud be suitable.

I am not a submarine welder, though I worked in a shipyard with a crew who were on strike from General Dynamics. I learned a ton of stuff from those guys.

[HWHII]

Try putting a 30 degree bevel on your pipe first. This should help.

As far as welding where they intersect. There is a method called the Claydon joint. It is a great way to intersect pipe and tubing. There is a article in the ABANA latest issue of the Hammers Blow and the MABA news letters.

[maddog]

How come nobody says take a welding course or offering to teach how to do it? How many posters are welders?
Here is my questions Is your airplane going to stay up. your submarine stay down.your nuke stay cool. Ask your self
can I weld unde a 40X microscope or a 4,000 lb turbine. if not please say so

I am making shop fixtures not submarines. Right now I am making a small rack out of round bar to hold hammers and tongs on the side of my forge table. Rather than weld the rack permanently on to the table, I want to weld on a couple of sockets out of black pipe to recieve the ends of the bar. Nuclear certs seem like a bit much for this sort of thing. If the welds fail and the hammers crash to their death, I will just curse a few times and weld the sockets back on.

All the suggestions that have been offered seem simple and effective for non critical applications. Crushing a short piece of pipe to make a saddle where two pipes cross is a very clever idea.

Thank you everyone

[Fosterob]

If I was to weld A plat to the side of a pipe I first would get a piece of small channel iron the length of the plat and weld it to the pipe and the plate to it, that way all welds are easy to do without that deep gap.
Now maddog, when your hammers fall to their death I would be happy to lay them to rest for you. Let me know postage to spare you the grief and pain of death in the family .
Rob

[Fosterob]

The channel method works good if you need to attach to small size pipe like 1 1/4" to 4". Pipe under that size would be easy to fill in. If the plate doesn't need to hold up the world then just put a small 1/2" to 1" long weld on the edge of the plate where it is laying on the pipe (both ends of the plate).
Rob

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

How come nobody says take a welding course or offering to teach how to do it? How many posters are welders?
Here is my questions Is your airplane going to stay up. your submarine stay down.your nuke stay cool. Ask your self
can I weld unde a 40X microscope or a 4,000 lb turbine. if not please say so

So should we remove the welding/fabricating forum?

[Frosty]

Another method I like is cutting a slit in the plate where the pipe is to be joined and weld from the other side. Use the appropriate anti-warpage techniques as needed of course.

Joining pipe at angles is easy enough, especially at 90*. For example you're making a "T" joint with 1 1/2" pipe. Buy a quality bi-metal hole saw 1 1/2" dia and use it to cut the pipe that "Ts" into the other piece. The big trick is measuring so figure from the center of the pilot bit and you'll be pretty close but if you're doing precise joins you'll have to allow for the kerf of the hole saw.

Making joints at different angles is trickier and requires a good drill vise and tilting table on your drill press. Calculate where the pilot bit needs to engage and center punch the pipe. Adjust the angle of the pipe with the drill table and make sure everything is solid. Using a drill bit long enouth to penetrate both sides of the pipe at the desired angle make a through hole. Next replace the pilot bit in the hole saw with a piece of straight round stock that fits the through hole without much play. The rd will act as the guide and won't wallow out the hole like a pilot bit with the side loading of drilling at an angle.

Of course there are other ways to match joints including making paper templates and using a saw and or grinder or just use the formula and tools. I learned about the formula and tools including the "wrap around" I still have but I've never needed them. Heck, you can just aim a flashlight down the pipe at the one it's to join, mark the lit spot and do your cutting.

There are lots of ways to do these things but I like my hole saws, probably because I'm a lazy old coot.

Frosty the Lucky.

[Frosty]

So should we remove the welding/fabricating forum?

Naw Grant I just ignore the gripers with no solutions. Well, try anyhow, I have been tempted to reply to the one with all the gripes about IFI and rules.

On topic though. I've been to the schools and do it my way instead so please just ignore my other reply, it might take away your reason for griping. I'd just hate to make a person have to use their imagination and think of a new complaint.

Frosty the Lucky.

[maddog]

...
Now maddog, when your hammers fall to their death I would be happy to lay them to rest for you. Let me know postage to spare you the grief and pain of death in the family .
Rob

Rob, It's a comfort to know that you will be there for my hammers in their hour of extremis. You are all heart.

Crossing pipes: Frosty notching won't work for the application I have in mind. I want to build an adjustable welding fixture with sliding rods at right angles to hold small pieces in position mainly to practice out of position welding without having to kneel at the welding table. Two short lengths of 1" pipe welded against each other in a cross would allow me to have vert & horiz slides of 3/4" pipe. But that's an ugly gap to fill.

I had thought of sandwiching a small square of flat stock in the middle and welding the pipes on either side by one of the methods suggested above. The crushed saddle made from a short piece of tubing sounds like a neat solution. I will have to see how easy it is in practice. I would probably not make it long enough to warp around the pipes, just enough to form a saddle and then weld it.

I should mention that I only have stick and gas, though I don't know it makes a difference here.

Now I have to get back to fixing my submarine. A blade snapped off the propellor when I backed it up into a rock. Why those things don't come equipped with rear view mirrors is a mystery to me. I am hoping JB weld will do the trick.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

The Claydon joint is very secure without welding. You should play with it, it's fun and they look really cool. And I don't think you need a certification to use it.

[maddog]

The Claydon joint is very secure without welding. You should play with it, it's fun and they look really cool. And I don't think you need a certification to use it.

I will. Here's the patent application Claydon Clamp. The PDF seems to have all the detail one needs.

[clinton]

In making various shop fixtures, I often have occaision to weld the side of a piece of pipe to a flat surface. Welding a butt end is easy but the pipe wall against a piece of flat stock makes a deep narrow gap that's hard to fill. I can get them welded but I'd like to know, is there a good way to do this?

A similar but more difficult problem is to weld where two pipes cross each other.

Thanks for any tips or advice

What type of welding machine do you have? Is it AC only or can you run DC?
What type of rod do you have? On an AC only machine I would use 6011 and if heat build up is an issue try welding down hill using a whipping motion (long arc then go back into the weld puddle) Or weave side to side to control the heat

[maddog]

What type of welding machine do you have? Is it AC only or can you run DC?
What type of rod do you have? On an AC only machine I would use 6011 and if heat build up is an issue try welding down hill using a whipping motion (long arc then go back into the weld puddle) Or weave side to side to control the heat

I have an old IdealArc 300. Big red thing the size of a small fridge. It does AC/DC upto 300A. It also does TIG but I haven't messed with that yet. I assume I can use 6010. I've never practiced downhill welding. Now might be the time.

Thanks

[Mainely,Bob]

The whole idea with welding or brazing is to fix something securely and permanently or till you decide to reverse the process and remove it.Keeping that in mind if you can`t get a welding electrode or torch into an area then maybe you need to think more about what it is you`re making and how you`re going about it.
Plunking a length of pipe down on top of a plate and running a bead down it will create a pivot point that is also a stress riser and is setting yourself up for failure.The most widely accepted method to fix pipe to plate like that is to modify the joint design or add reinforcement along the joint to eliminate flex and combine the pipe and plate into a rigid assembly or unit.
Straps welded at an angle from the pipe to the plate are the quick fix.From there you move on to things like wrapping the strap around the OD of the pipe and bending tabs on the plate ends.
Stand off plates set a 90 degrees to the run of the pipe and cut to fit the OD of the pipe and hold the pipe far enough away from the plate so you can get a full penetration weld everywhere you need to would be a next step.
A stand off made from a drop of the same pipe in the run can be coped on one end and cut square on the other to form a saddle that will hold the pipe securely in more than one direction and increases the strength and resists flex even better than a plate stand off.
That forged clamping technique using round or square tubing is just a quick way around making a stand off for someone who is not adept at coping or fitting pipe.If you full weld it it`s an improvement but still only as strong and the thin wall stock it`s formed from.

I used to tell newbies that it would help if they thought of weld beads like glue.The better the fit up and larger the coverage area(within reason) the better your chances that things will hold long term.
That lone bead of weld down the pipe to plate contact area just aint cuttin` it on anything other than a mock up.
Anybody who takes pride in what he does will just point and laugh when he sees something like that.Take the time to do it right and be proud of what you make.

[Dragons lair]

Certifications? Who said that? Gripes? Post #1 had no mention of size or materials. No mention of type of equipment No pics. Just how to.
So before I go sit in the corner one question. The fuel light is on in my work truck. What type fuel should I get and how much to fill it up? LOL
Ken.

[maddog]

The whole idea with welding or brazing is to fix something securely and permanently or till you decide to reverse the process and remove it.Keeping that in mind if you can`t get a welding electrode or torch into an area then maybe you need to think more about what it is you`re making and how you`re going about it.
Plunking a length of pipe down on top of a plate and running a bead down it will create a pivot point that is also a stress riser and is setting yourself up for failure.The most widely accepted method to fix pipe to plate like that is to modify the joint design or add reinforcement along the joint to eliminate flex and combine the pipe and plate into a rigid assembly or unit.
Straps welded at an angle from the pipe to the plate are the quick fix.From there you move on to things like wrapping the strap around the OD of the pipe and bending tabs on the plate ends.
Stand off plates set a 90 degrees to the run of the pipe and cut to fit the OD of the pipe and hold the pipe far enough away from the plate so you can get a full penetration weld everywhere you need to would be a next step.
A stand off made from a drop of the same pipe in the run can be coped on one end and cut square on the other to form a saddle that will hold the pipe securely in more than one direction and increases the strength and resists flex even better than a plate stand off.
That forged clamping technique using round or square tubing is just a quick way around making a stand off for someone who is not adept at coping or fitting pipe.If you full weld it it`s an improvement but still only as strong and the thin wall stock it`s formed from.

I used to tell newbies that it would help if they thought of weld beads like glue.The better the fit up and larger the coverage area(within reason) the better your chances that things will hold long term.
That lone bead of weld down the pipe to plate contact area just aint cuttin` it on anything other than a mock up.
Anybody who takes pride in what he does will just point and laugh when he sees something like that.Take the time to do it right and be proud of what you make.

Thank you Bob. That is all valuable information for me. I pay close attention to anything you have to say about welding. But don't you think there is a place for this and a place for that? If the application is critical or bears a heavy load then a proper weld design must be used and there should be no short cuts. But sometimes just good enough is good enough. JB Weld is not the way to fix a submarine propellor but it does have its uses.

Right now I need to weld a short piece of 1 1/2" pipe onto a leg of my welding table as a bracket for the 1" air supply pipe. The last time I did this, I did make a stand off from a couple of pieces of angle iron and it was solid. But it was also bulky and considerably more work. In this case just running the welds between the pipe and plate is probably already much stronger than is really needed and the consequences of failure are minor. The same for my adjustable welding fixture.

That being said, craftsmanship and the standards set by other craftsmen are matter to me. I have to admit it would bother me to know that a good welder would have contempt for my work, even if I were certain it was adequate for the job.

[Frosty]

Certifications? Who said that? Gripes? Post #1 had no mention of size or materials. No mention of type of equipment No pics. Just how to.
So before I go sit in the corner one question. The fuel light is on in my work truck. What type fuel should I get and how much to fill it up? LOL
Ken.

Sorry Ken my mind was elsewhere and I should've kept my fingers off the keyboard. Heck, I didn't even grasp the original question, I only focused on the "remove the welding fabrication section" comment and went off.

My apologies everyone. No excuse. Get out of my corner Ken!

Frosty the Lucky.

[knots]

Joining pipe at angles is easy enough, especially at 90*. For example you're making a "T" joint with 1 1/2" pipe. Buy a quality bi-metal hole saw 1 1/2" dia and use it to cut the pipe that "Ts" into the other piece. The big trick is measuring so figure from the center of the pilot bit and you'll be pretty close but if you're doing precise joins you'll have to allow for the kerf of the hole saw.
ere are lots of ways to do these things but I like my hole saws, probably because I'm a lazy old coot.

Frosty the Lucky.

I have VFD on my drill press. Being able to slow the spindle down takes a lot of risk out of using hole saws in these kind of set-ups . The resulting cuts are usually a lot more accurate. I suspect it also increases the life of the saw blade as well.

[Dragons lair]

Sorry Ken my mind was elsewhere and I should've kept my fingers off the keyboard. Heck, I didn't even grasp the original question, I only focused on the "remove the welding fabrication section" comment and went off.

My apologies everyone. No excuse. Get out of my corner Ken!

Frosty the Lucky.

Come on jER It's our corner. I 'll share it any time with ya. I'would even share the goats corner if we wern't so far apart. I have no problem with you or Grant or any one else. LV to ya all goats, dogs and all. And I burn those birtches any time i can.
Ken.

[eric sprado]

Dragon's Lair: A bit confused at your really angry sounding reaction to my reply.I was trying to help as best as I could like most folks here do. I guess I'm not the hot shot welder you are,but I did keep Kodiak Coast Guard Base pretty well maintained while I was there as a pipe welder. Admittedly it was 200 years ago in the 70's and,as I said,I haven't kept up with new technology... Maybe I misinterpreted your reply.......