Welding Forklift Tine

[meancoyote]

7018 is a good rod to use for most things but, on the tines you should use something like 9018 up 11018. Still low hydrogen but a much stronger.

yes 11018 would be good for tempered steel, that is what it is made for I believe.

[maddog]

7018 is a good rod to use for most things but, on the tines you should use something like 9018 up 11018. Still low hydrogen but a much stronger.

I don't mean to start an argument. But I am always looking to improve my understanding. I can see that if the tine was being repaired so that it could go back into service on the forklift, you would want the weld strength to match the tine as close as possible. (though you probably wouldn't want to do such a repair anyway) But in this case, it seems to me, the welds are not under much tension so what would be the advantage of a high tensile strength rod over plain ole 7018?

I have a bunch of 9018 and 1018 but I have not used any so far. It came as part of a scrap metal trade.

Thanks

[arftist]

I don't mean to start an argument. But I am always looking to improve my understanding. I can see that if the tine was being repaired so that it could go back into service on the forklift, you would want the weld strength to match the tine as close as possible. (though you probably wouldn't want to do such a repair anyway) But in this case, it seems to me, the welds are not under much tension so what would be the advantage of a high tensile strength rod over plain ole 7018?

I have a bunch of 9018 and 1018 but I have not used any so far. It came as part of a scrap metal trade.

Thanks

Well, same reason really. To match the strength of the tines. You do beleive that anvils are used in what could be called severe service, right? My biggest sledgehammer weighs 20#. My favorite is only 16#.

[maddog]

Well, same reason really. To match the strength of the tines. You do beleive that anvils are used in what could be called severe service, right? My biggest sledgehammer weighs 20#. My favorite is only 16#.

I sure hope the anvil will see some heavy service. But those welds are just being used to sandwich the plates together. It seemed to me that in that position with that kind of use, the welds wouldn't actually get that much load.

[archiphile]

I sure hope the anvil will see some heavy service. But those welds are just being used to sandwich the plates together. It seemed to me that in that position with that kind of use, the welds wouldn't actually get that much load.

Yes and while 7018 LH is good for many things, 11018 and the like are specifically designed for this type of material and work. Sure this application would "only be used to sandwich the parts together" but the repeated stress o hammer blows could cause stress fractures if one does not use the correct alloy rod.

To the OP, if you have access to a heat treat oven, do it post welding as it will decrease the stress in the material and help to reduce the damage cause by welding and the HAZ.

[Eric Farrar]

I have a fabbed anvil with the base being some 8"x2.5" forklift tine I found on an Iraqi air force base my 3rd tour in Iraq. I built her in the middle of summer where nighttime ambient heat is over 100F - I guess that helped to slow the cooling so I didn't get any cracks in my welds.

My question on pre/post heating: after welding she'd be at a high heat already, so how about packing the whole anvil in a 55 gallon drum of vermiculite to slow the cooling down instead of thinking about any special kind of post-heating?

I am considering welding on a plate of 1" O1 to the top of her and this might be what I have to do when welding her.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

I have a fabbed anvil with the base being some 8"x2.5" forklift tine I found on an Iraqi air force base my 3rd tour in Iraq. I built her in the middle of summer where nighttime ambient heat is over 100F - I guess that helped to slow the cooling so I didn't get any cracks in my welds.

My question on pre/post heating: after welding she'd be at a high heat already, so how about packing the whole anvil in a 55 gallon drum of vermiculite to slow the cooling down instead of thinking about any special kind of post-heating?

I am considering welding on a plate of 1" O1 to the top of her and this might be what I have to do when welding her.

People do that a lot, but it only helps with the mechanical stresses - a little. The main thing is the "heat affected zone". As you weld, your puddle raises the temperature of adjacent material to above austenizing temperature and as you move on the heat is sucked out by the mass of the part. It might not look like it, but this is "quenching" as extreme as water! Even with a slow cool the "HAZ" will be hard as glass. Post heating is actually just tempering the hardened part and can only be done AFTER the part cools to room temperature.

[ciladog]

People do that a lot, but it only helps with the mechanical stresses - a little. The main thing is the "heat affected zone". As you weld, your puddle raises the temperature of adjacent material to above austenizing temperature and as you move on the heat is sucked out by the mass of the part. It might not look like it, but this is "quenching" as extreme as water! Even with a slow cool the "HAZ" will be hard as glass. Post heating is actually just tempering the hardened part and can only be done AFTER the part cools to room temperature.

What if you just tack weld the assembly together and then raise temperature of the entire assemble before welding? Wouldn’t that solve the problem?

[jmeineke]

It might not look like it, but this is "quenching" as extreme as water! Even with a slow cool the "HAZ" will be hard as glass. Post heating is actually just tempering the hardened part and can only be done AFTER the part cools to room temperature.

Okay, now I'm confused. It sounds like if I have an anvil with a badly damaged edge, it would it hurt to "touch it up" with HF rod (assuming proper pre-heat / post-heat and rod that matches the base metal properties) I've been operating under the principle that this was a big no-no because of the HAZ - that anything around that area would go soft. Is that not entirely true?

[pkrankow]

Sounds like consulting a TTT diagram for the base and filler materials are necessary.. Anybody have suitable links?

Phil

[maddog]

People do that a lot, but it only helps with the mechanical stresses - a little. The main thing is the "heat affected zone". As you weld, your puddle raises the temperature of adjacent material to above austenizing temperature and as you move on the heat is sucked out by the mass of the part. It might not look like it, but this is "quenching" as extreme as water! Even with a slow cool the "HAZ" will be hard as glass. Post heating is actually just tempering the hardened part and can only be done AFTER the part cools to room temperature.

As I understand it, this is not an issue if the anvil is preheated??

[Mainely,Bob]

As I understand it, this is not an issue if the anvil is preheated??

The pre and post heat help deal stresses in the HAZ and also help with distortion and cracking due to shrinkage.
I have also had a lot of luck running short beads and peening the weld while still hot.I use a needle gun or chatter gun with a single round chisel in it rather than needles and run down the center and then the sides of the bead before continuing on.
I figure if it works for welding cast iron then it can`t hurt to use the same approach on other tricky unions of finicky or less than friendly metal.
"A proper beating will teach both parties to behave" is a time tested old school technique I believe. :rolleyes:

[maddog]

The pre and post heat help deal stresses in the HAZ and also help with distortion and cracking due to shrinkage.
I have also had a lot of luck running short beads and peening the weld while still hot.I use a needle gun or chatter gun with a single round chisel in it rather than needles and run down the center and then the sides of the bead before continuing on.
I figure if it works for welding cast iron then it can`t hurt to use the same approach on other tricky unions of finicky or less than friendly metal.
"A proper beating will teach both parties to behave" is a time tested old school technique I believe.

Lol. Thanks Bob.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Okay, now I'm confused. It sounds like if I have an anvil with a badly damaged edge, it would it hurt to "touch it up" with HF rod (assuming proper pre-heat / post-heat and rod that matches the base metal properties) I've been operating under the principle that this was a big no-no because of the HAZ - that anything around that area would go soft. Is that not entirely true?

When welding heat-treatable material, the HAZ is a series of concentric circles from the weld puddle. The part nearest to the puddle is raised above hardening temperature and cools fast enough to be a quench, so it will come out hard. Further away it has only been raised to a high draw temperature and will be softened. Pre-heat helps because it slows the quenching a little, but that area has still been hardened and with the boost from the pre-heat a larger area has received a high draw temperature and has been softened.

People usually consider hot-to-the-touch as sufficient pre-heat. Even 400F will have very little effect on preventing hardening.

[Mainely,Bob]

Here`s my personal take on this anvil repair thing;If you absolutely can`t live with the condition your anvil face or edge is in then by all means repair it in the best way you can manage.
The best possible resolution would be to bring it to someone who knows what they`re doing and can supply references to real people who own anvils he or she has repaired and you can talk to.
If this is not an option,like the commercial says,JUST DO IT!
At the least you will have learned something and as I said,the darn thing wasn`t serviceable to begin with.
An anvil with soft spots is better than no anvil at all and if you don`t have the skills and talent to do a reasonably right job then set it aside and wait till you do.
This stuff is not rocket science and we`re talking about scrap fork lift parts here.You don`t need a clean room and vacuum chamber with a computer controlled environment to get something you can beat iron on.
The worst that can happen is that you get the stuff too hot and it goes soft on ya.Take it back to the scrap yard you got it from and trade it in once you have beat the crap out of it and can`t stand it anymore.
It`s not about making the most perfect anvil known to man it`s about getting something to beat hot iron on.
Better to have to soft and deform than to have it too hard and chip away in the form of schrapnel and hurt somebody.
That`s my feelings on the subject.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

While I do enjoy getting into the "why" of things and the technical aspects, I will agree with Bob 100% - just do it. In this case, what's the worst that can happen? I mean, we're still talking about forklift forks, right?

I don't like to just say "do it this way". I like people to know why they should "do it this way", that's all.

[maddog]

Well my anvil is an old HB and I have welded it in places, mainly to build up edges and I have plans to do more. I've been using the Messer MG740 that irnsrgn recommended in his BP and 7018. So far so good. Soft doesnt bother me. Even annealed, the plate holds up very well for my work. And if it does deform in a few years, hey I welded it once, I can weld it again.

But creating brittle regions worries me. I would rather take the torch and draw the temper on the HAZ than leave it hard quenched as Grant explains.