Ponderings on a portable teaching rig

[Sam Falzone]

Hi everyone.
I'm looking to pick the collective IFI brains on something I've been thinking about lately.
I have a portable charcoal forge rig that I haul out to demos, and it always gets lots of attention. I've been approached many times over the years if I would be interested in teaching a beginner's blacksmithing class at various demos. Lately I've found myself seriously considering it so I've began gathering up gear that I would want ,to teach a class of up to 4 beginners some very basic smithing skills (basic hammering, stance, drawing out, bending, etc), enough that they could make their own S-hook by the end of the class - lots of you probably do similar things. The main things I wanted were two 75-100lb anvils to make 2 student work stations.
Recently in another thread I posted that I had found a sweet 100lb mousehole that I had picked up for my teaching rig. But then I got to thinking, "Do I want an absolute green beginner whaling away on my sweet little mousehole - or any decent anvil for that matter?"
So what I would like your opinion on is ...
Should I risk using good anvils for these student stations or should I use a cheaper ASO? (Like the picture I attached)

ASO.bmp

[brianbrazealblacksmith]

I'd suggest using a 2" plate of steel with the basic forging dies cut into it (flat,fuller,butcher). I.ve had more success explaining forging to people who have never had much exposure to blacksmithing with those small dies.

[ThomasPowers]

Sure use good anvils. I do for the hundreds of folks who have done an S hook at my forge; BUT go ahead and draw temper on the HAMMERS they will use, Pretty easy to redress a hammer face and having a hammer that can't damage the anvil is a great thing for new folk---far better than having battered ASOs for new people to work on---makes *you* look bad.

Helps to have a wide range of hammers for them to choose from as most folks can't swing a "smith's hammer" properly. I have done well with a heavier hammer with a short handle---they seem to be able to do more work with it and the broader face makes it easier for them to hit the work. I have a french crosspein that is beloved by many of my students, almost dead soft but they can still move metal with it.

You might want to think about making a guillotine cutter for them to use as I have had some nasty slits put in a soft hammer head by students using a hardy.

Also I find that two students to an anvil is about right and so perhaps 4 students to a coal forge---2 off each side; BUT you have to train them on not letting the fire go out or burning up other peoples work! I have had 5 or 6 in a propane forge but 4 is a lot easier and safer with my 10" tube forge.

Remember that besides different sized hammers you need to have different height anvils---if you have a steel stand think about making it so you can pull out a piece of wood from under the anvil to drop it a couple of inches for shorter folks.

Don't forget leather aprons and safety glasses for *EVERYONE* and no plastic shoes!

[Mainely,Bob]

Thomas brought up most of the points(especially the soft hammer heads) I thought of except these 2;
For the price of 1 ASO you could probably buy a large scrap fork lift tine and have it cut into 2 or more student work stations as Brian said and be better off in the long run as the cut pieces will have at least 2 working surfaces and you could flip it like a swage block if needed.
The other thing I`d suggest would be to make up a couple of wood squares like small deck squares and make them stackable so you can place one on top of another to adjust the height of the student rather than the anvil.If they`re light enough they can be kicked into place and then kicked out of the way when not needed.Far easier(and maybe safer) than adjusting the anvil up and down between students.

[DennisG]

I just started doing demos around the province and have also found ppl asking about classes and such, one day maybe I will share my abilities, in a few yrs me thinks.

Brian, could you post some pics to show what you are talking about? My old head is having trouble picturing it.

[JNewman]

I would do as Brian suggests and use blocks made of plate as anvils. You are teaching the basics and that is all you need to start out. I would bring your small anvil but would demo what you want them to try on the same type of anvil as they have. You could buy the plate for less money than the ASO and it will stand up much better. If they get beat up it is easy to take a little off the top and it's good as new. True cut steel which is near the Spectator would be your best bet if you buy plate. They will flame cut it to the size YOU want for less than many of the places around will charge for a piece CLOSE to what you want. You will need to grind the top edge flat or have it machined but I just cleaned up a piece from them for some bending forms I only had to take 1/32 off to get a clean face which I bolted to the press. You are welcome to drop by and see the flame cut finish.

[pkrankow]

Buying 2 new chunks of hardenable steel would cost about the same as buying 2 new ASO's of similar mass. This was last year that I looked into it, but I expect prices to be similar all the same.

Phil

[ThomasPowers]

1: if you give a student an uneven floor they *WILL* trip on it---usually while holding glowing steel. Shoot some of them trip on a dead flat surface as they are concentrating on the steel and not where they are going. I'd group students by height and just set the anvils the one time per session.

2: if you are trying to lure folks in a real anvil is more alluring that a block anvil---of course I usually do at least one demo using a block anvil and minimal tooling as part of my "it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to get started talk"

Rather than having uniformity off tooling I like wide variation so that they can see different ways of mounting anvils, post vises, making forges etc.

[JNewman]

2: if you are trying to lure folks in a real anvil is more alluring that a block anvil---of course I usually do at least one demo using a block anvil and minimal tooling as part of my "it doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg to get started talk"

Rather than having uniformity off tooling I like wide variation so that they can see different ways of mounting anvils, post vises, making forges etc.

I understand what you mean about variety Thomas that is why I suggested bringing one london pattern anvil, and am a huge proponent for the fact that there are many ways to do the same thing. However too much choice when just starting out can cause confusion and overload people. My point about Sam demoing on the block anvil was so that there is no chance of the "well he did it on the REAL anvil and I just have this chunk of steel that's why I am having trouble" attitude.

The steel I was suggesting was just plain old mild steel not hardenable, I think Brian was suggesting the same if I am wrong please correct me Brian. What are we talking about maybe 10-20 days/year? For the kind of use we are talking about mild steel will stand up just fine and can easily be cleaned up if necessary. Mild steel is considerably cheaper than steel that can be hardened. I have a block of mild steel that I sometimes clamp in my postvise that was midway between my hammer and press that I use as anvil so I don't have to take an extra couple of steps to the anvil. I have probably trued up over 1000 1" round bars on it as well as lots of other use, I have taken some of the surface rust off it but that is all. The mild steel is also safer I don't know if you have liability insurance for teaching Sam but hardened anvils or cast iron ASOs can chip, I know a farrier with an anvil edge chip embedded in his breastbone. I would rather clean up the edge of a dinged anvil than take a beginner student to the hospital.

[evfreek]

...

The steel I was suggesting was just plain old mild steel not hardenable, I think Brian was suggesting the same if I am wrong please correct me Brian. What are we talking about maybe 10-20 days/year? For the kind of use we are talking about mild steel will stand up just fine and can easily be cleaned up if necessary. Mild steel is considerably cheaper than ...

Hi JNewman. I'm pretty sure you're correct. I saw Brian and Ed demoing at a CBA conference a few years ago, and they had an Easysmith (block with dies) anvil. Ed was helping a kid draw out a tong rein. Brian mentioned that this anvil makes all others obsolete. There were a couple of small dings, but it looked more like mottling than divots. Ed mentioned that the anvil was made out of mild steel. It didn't rebound as it "should", but it still worked just fine. It looked like it was working to me. I made one, and it worked just great. Especially the fuller die. That thing is great!. I made mine from 1080 and it only dings if I intentionally test it. Somehow, I can ease the dings out by peening around the rims if they are not too deep. I only dinged it once, when I was wondering how hard a Harbor Freight hammer was. It's plenty hard.

At another meet, I saw a similar block-die anvil, although not made by Brian. It was on sale for $731. I had no doubt that it was a very effective anvil, but for some reason, I didn't think it would sell easily at that price.