Welding structural wrought iron

[Senft]

I've been working with some scrap wrought channels (12"and about 3/4" web) and need to get strong welds on them. Have been told to treat like A36 as far as welding goes. Found that 6010-11 cracks through weld upon cooling and so does TIG with mild steel filler, 7018 seems to work OK. Have also heard of using some other 70 series stick electrode, however don't recall exact number. Wondered if anyone else here has experience with this.

[ThomasPowers]

Is this real Wrought Iron, the stuff they stopped making quite some time ago; or is this "wrought iron" made from modern metals?

I have a book on WI that talks about welding on it but I doubt the rod designations would transfer 50 years later.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

12 inch with a 3/4" thick web? And you tried to TIG weld it? Never seen wrought iron rolled channel. Of course all rolled products are called "wrought" in the industry. If it's just rolled channel, then the problem is more likely your welding than what rod you're using.

[ThomasPowers]

(I have, and WI RR rail and marine driveshafts, oilfield pipe, ...)

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Yeah, I've seen WI rolled products, just never seen WI channel like he's describing.

[Senft]

12 inch with a 3/4" thick web? And you tried to TIG weld it? Never seen wrought iron rolled channel. Of course all rolled products are called "wrought" in the industry. If it's just rolled channel, then the problem is more likely your welding than what rod you're using.

Yes, it's real wrought iron channel and nice heavy stuff. Salvaged from an 1880's building. Got to thinking about what it might be and cut off a test piece to fracture. has a lengthwise grain like wood. grinding into it, laminations are clearly visible. Only reason for trying TIG on it is that I had used some of it in a sculpture at an earlier time and needed to make some welds on small sections that I had forged down fairly thin. Didn't work! Slag in the material floated in the nice little TIG puddle, messy,then the weld always cracked upon cooling. I have a fair amount of this large channel and would like to use in other building projects and am looking at the best way to treat it as far as welding. Figured if anyone has much experience with best way to electric weld the stuff it will be someone on this forum. Something had stuck in my head about 7024 being the best flavor to use on it, but I don't quite recall- just want to use the right stuff. In my experience this stuff is also considerably weaker than steel channel, so I need to be careful what I do with it.

[Francis Trez Cole]

I wonder if braising would be a better choice. If I was to try it with stick my first choice of a welding would be a cast 99 nickle rod. 1880's they did not have stick welding they used riviets. Maybe if you could make your project with riviets as the joining method. Kinda retro 1880's I will check my welding books when I get home.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

That sure sounds like wrought iron all right. Welding tends to melt the glass (slag) out, leaving the grain exposed next to the weld. Nothing will be perfect, but 7018 should work best.

[Timothy Miller]

I have read that gas welding works well. I have also seen some respectable welds with stainless steel rods but forge welding is best for wrought iron. Now all you need is a crew of strikers and a very big fire.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

I second the use of rivets.

[HWooldridge]

Yes, it's real wrought iron channel and nice heavy stuff. Salvaged from an 1880's building. Got to thinking about what it might be and cut off a test piece to fracture. has a lengthwise grain like wood. grinding into it, laminations are clearly visible. Only reason for trying TIG on it is that I had used some of it in a sculpture at an earlier time and needed to make some welds on small sections that I had forged down fairly thin. Didn't work! Slag in the material floated in the nice little TIG puddle, messy,then the weld always cracked upon cooling. I have a fair amount of this large channel and would like to use in other building projects and am looking at the best way to treat it as far as welding. Figured if anyone has much experience with best way to electric weld the stuff it will be someone on this forum. Something had stuck in my head about 7024 being the best flavor to use on it, but I don't quite recall- just want to use the right stuff. In my experience this stuff is also considerably weaker than steel channel, so I need to be careful what I do with it.

7014 is all position - 7024 is horizontal only (more iron powder). Instinct tells me that 7018AC would probably work well because it is a regular 7018 rod with additional iron powder and some other ingredients to help clean the weld.

[Senft]

Thanks all, sounds reasonable. I think I'll try out some 7018AC too and see if it likes it. May bolt in addition (Do not have enough sound insulation nor enough help to get the #90 rivet gun out ).

[monstermetal]

Thanks all, sounds reasonable. I think I'll try out some 7018AC too and see if it likes it. May bolt in addition (Do not have enough sound insulation nor enough help to get the #90 rivet gun out ).

I went rounds with a local guy who had a original chunk of an Eiffle tower staircase that needed repair. He found after much trial and error that gas welding with as low of carbon rod as he could find was the "best" method but that wire welding with dual sheild, like Esab 7000, yielded good results. The likely reason being the self cleaning property's of dual shield wire, it pulls the slag to the top of the weld puddle and you end up with a better bond... If you have the ability to wire weld it I think the dual shield is worth a shot (just dont use inershild wire, that would likely be a ugly disaster)

[Francis Trez Cole]

After getting home I looked it up. In the book Studies in Arc Welding Design, Manufacture and Construction copyright 1943 Published by the James F. Lincoln arc welding foundation Page 518 Chapter II Wrought Iron furniture manf. By Joseph H. Wodard

"undoubtedly most, if not all, of the welds could be accomplished by the acetylene method"

In refrence to arc welding "No Joints were longer than an inch" the issues were warpage and cracking.

Hope this helps

[Timothy Miller]

I have read that gas welding works well. I have also seen some respectable welds with stainless steel rods but forge welding is best for wrought iron. Now all you need is a crew of strikers and a very big fire.

Did I say something wrong there?

[Mainely,Bob]

Nope!Didn`t say anything wrong.
There seems to be a trend lately of restating things.Soon someone will come along and agree with only the last person to say it but not the 3 other folks who said exactly the same thing previously.
Maybe if enough people say exactly the same thing then that would be the point we reach a consensus?Not real sure how that sort of thing works.

BTW-I personally think it would be a good idea to try gas welding of WI channel.Have we reached consensus yet?

I wouldn`t worry about it Southshore.They tell me it`s not about getting there first,it`s about getting the knowledge out there. :rolleyes:

[Senft]

As much info as possible from large group with experience is always good! Very much appreciated. The idea of gas welding makes sense, the dual shield also. I've only used solid wire mig so far so will need to learn about the dual shield.

[Timothy Miller]

Nope!Didn`t say anything wrong.
There seems to be a trend lately of restating things.Soon someone will come along and agree with only the last person to say it but not the 3 other folks who said exactly the same thing previously.
Maybe if enough people say exactly the same thing then that would be the point we reach a consensus?Not real sure how that sort of thing works.

BTW-I personally think it would be a good idea to try gas welding of WI channel.Have we reached consensus yet?

I wouldn`t worry about it Southshore.They tell me it`s not about getting there first,it`s about getting the knowledge out there.

So why did my comment get a -3 BTW (asking for an explanation not reassurance that i know what I am talking about.) I was the first person to mention gas welding. Schwarzkoph "Plain and Ornamental Forging" has a whole chapter on gas welding wrought iron it is also discussed in "Metal techinques for craftsman" By Oppi Untracht When you really get down to it wrought iron is the material for blacksmiths not welders. it is like the play dough of ferrous metals get it hot enough and it will practically forge weld it self.

[Dragons lair]

Best to just ignore the little box inna corner.
Ken

[Timothy Miller]

One of the problems with welding wrought is if you weld a piece perpendicular to the grain it can tare out aka delaminate in the heat affected zone especially if it is lower grade wrought. Even if you use the right rod/process. If you are going to heat wrought and put any kind of stress to it really needs to be at least at a high forging heat. After graduated I used to run around in NYC with a welding truck. I fixed a lot of very old fire escapes and hand rails. I took apart a lot of old wrought iron stuff with rivets, bolts, forge welds, gas welds and arc welds. Even buildings built in the 1940,s they were using wrought for fire escapes and riveting or bolting. Some one told me it was against code to weld together fire escapes they had to be riveted or bolted. Doind that work was like getting a crash course in the history of metal work. Now if you are making art anything that looks like you want it to look like and wont fall apart is acceptable. Unless if it falling apart is part of the work.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Sorry, I just can't imagine gas welding 3/4" thick material.

[Timothy Miller]

Your right grant the probably don't even make the tips anymore for that kind of work. I don't doubt that back in the day people did that. I heard about a guy who welded with 3/8 re-bar as filler wire on 5/8" plate back in the 1950's in Arabia in the oil fields.

[Boyhowdy2113]

I've been working with some scrap wrought channels (12"and about 3/4" web) and need to get strong welds on them. Have been told to treat like A36 as far as welding goes. Found that 6010-11 cracks through weld upon cooling and so does TIG with mild steel filler, 7018 seems to work OK. Have also heard of using some other 70 series stick electrode, however don't recall exact number. Wondered if anyone else here has experience with this.

I would suggest Preheating and holding the temp around 450 degrees. Pein after each pass,this will relieve any undo stress. 7018 should work fine. when completely welded, throw a blanket over it,(not wrapped tight),to keep it from cooling too fast.

[Senft]

It will likely wind up that that I don't have large enough tips or tanks around right now and will need to use 7018 or mig as mentioned. The idea of where the weld goes in relation to the grain direction also did occur to me. All of this also confirms that I will not use it for anything critical such as the press frame I'd have liked to do. Although it's really heavy channel I'm not sure the quality, and would not enjoy having it blow apart near me. Interesting that even at a fairly late date (1950) you can find wrought iron specified for certain locomotive boiler parts such as staybolts where some flexibility is required, with flange grade steels specified for everything else.

[Timothy Miller]

It will likely wind up that that I don't have large enough tips or tanks around right now and will need to use 7018 or mig as mentioned. The idea of where the weld goes in relation to the grain direction also did occur to me. All of this also confirms that I will not use it for anything critical such as the press frame I'd have liked to do. Although it's really heavy channel I'm not sure the quality, and would not enjoy having it blow apart near me. Interesting that even at a fairly late date (1950) you can find wrought iron specified for certain locomotive boiler parts such as staybolts where some flexibility is required, with flange grade steels specified for everything else.

I would keep it and just use it for what it is best for forging or sell it and buy some mild steel with the money you get. then use that for the press frame.