GobblerForge Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Well I decided to build a tire hammer. Having very little experience with hammers and machining talents and knowledge with the intricacies of mechanics, I won't have to clutter my mind with facts. So I printed and studied many photos of tire hammers and power hammers, and since there seems to be no dimensional info out there, I decided to wing it. I mean really, how far can the pieces fly, anyway? After studying the photos, there seems to be no set rules for lengths, diameters and such so I am just going by what seems to have worked. My best friend has machining, gunsmithing and mechanical knowledge that astounds me and has been a huge help with machining and advice. And it's possible he's even a better scrounge than I am. I'll be putting up some photos as time goes by so you can see what's going on. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocDrew Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Clay Spencer is doing tire hammer workshops now, You can try to track him down and see about getting some input or plans. I've got one from the BAM workshop last november, works very nicely. If you're near central Missouri, I'd be happy to let you come out sometime and spec it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted September 15, 2006 Author Share Posted September 15, 2006 Here's what I have so far. I'm working on using a hydraulic cylinder for the hammer. We'll see how it works. The tire and rim are from a bone yard. The axle is unknown but the hubs and bearings are heavy duty. Looking to use something solid and heavy for the anvil. still need a motor, but they are around. Hmmmm. Frankenhammer needs a brain. Igor, do you remember the Abby Normal incident? http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1105/cat/500/ppuser/225http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1106/cat/500/ppuser/225http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1107/cat/500/ppuser/225http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1108/cat/500/ppuser/225 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Timing is bad right now. Looks like I may get back on it after Quad State. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted September 26, 2006 Author Share Posted September 26, 2006 Well, I have a round bar 31" long and 3 1/2" dia. for the anvil. I am going to make bottom dies to slip over the end of the anvil and get pinned on. The hammer is 16 inches long, 2 3/4" dia. and chromed. Perty. I found I had a like new motor at my disposal. I am going to make the motor pulley 2" to start and see what that speed does. I figure it will max at 140 or so. A bigger pully will create a higher top rpm. Easy to change and I thought it would be safer to build up to see what the hammer likes for top end. Hope to take some pics and get some assembly done today. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Thanks folks.... I have talked to Clay Spencer in person at a local blacksmith conference. He he did not have any drawings for sale or otherwise at the time. He said that the upgrades were changing a a pace that did not allow for drawings at the moment. He offered for me to sign up and come to an "assembly" demonstration for around $1200. I do not wish to spent that kind of money on my hobby. I have however found most parts for under $100. As I mentioned earlier, at this time I am in need of more specific measurements. I can always wing the measurements and assembly but I am hoping to have a little more guideline for cutting to fit parts and such. Please continue with the information. It seems that more than just me are interested in these nice machines. Thanks again, DanL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 Hi again folks, Gobblerforge...Thanks for the information on the other post. I just saw it after posting the above. I really like the way that you tackled the pivot bearing and toggle/spring mechanism. I am going to have to leave out the 2 beagles however. I do not have room fo them in my shop ;-) Thanks again, DanL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 I will abondon my other post in favor of keeping together the information that Gobblerforge and others have contributed on this post. Items that I have gathered so far include: Solid 8" x 36" roundstock to use as the anvil 5" x 5" square heavy wall tubing to use for the frame. Tire, wheel and 2 hubs/bearings 1 hp motor and 3" aluminum drive wheel mucho scrap metal for assembly parts and supports 2' x4 ' sheet steel 3/8" thick for base 3/8" thick high density polyethelene for bearing/bushing for hammer Coil spring for toggle mechanism Still deciding on what to use for the hammer at this time need time to create and fabricate. DanL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodge Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Dan, A tire hammer doesn't have to be expensive at all as long as your willing to scrounge and wait for stuff. I built mine for less than 200. Albeit, I was able to get scrap cheap where I worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Hi again kids... ApprenticeMan...I like your idea about attaching/welding a piece of round stock to some squarestock to fabricate the hammer. I am fortunate to have a scrapyard that has many diameter choices of round stock typically available in short pieces. Usually just end cut-offs ~1/4" to a few inches long. I was lucky to find a piece that was 36". I had been watching for about 2 years for that one. Dodge...I agree about the price. One just has to be paitient and persistant. Now if I just had some of that precious "free time". ;-) DanL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 OK. I have the anvil mounted. 31" long bar 3 1/2". Over This I plan to to use 1" thick dies mounted by slipping over the top and pinned from the side. The hammer is 16" of hydraulic cylinder 2 3/4" in diameter. The motor and brake are mounted and working. I just have to make and install a 2" pulley. I still need to make the first bottom die and install it. Then the hammer guide needs finished and installed. At that point I think it will run and then any glaring mistakes will show themselves. I am expecting some adjustments and modifications will be arising.http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1314/size/big/cat/500/ppuser/225http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1313/size/big/cat/500/ppuser/225 Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Just a quick question about the brake. Is there a pad underneath so that when the motor pulls away it forces in up against the tire? or is it just the motor pulling away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Gobblerforge... Your tire hammer is looking great! Thanks for the play-by-play pics and commentary. This has really been helpful. Please keep the pics and commentary coming. Thanks again, DanL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 Yes, Easy, the brake is an offset arm that raises as the motor weight drops. I'll try to get a close-up for you. The arm is strong, but I plan to put a flat shoe as the brake surface. That way there is no edge to catch. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Another question that's been in the back of my head for a bit. I assume, judging by your break set-up that you are going to have the pulley on the motor directly contact the tire to run it rather than a belt and pulley system. I'm wondering how long you'd expect that tire to last before it would need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well, it works. The last thing to go on today was the pulley. Turned out to be 2 3/4" in dia. instead of the 2" that we planned. Just took another four inches of the hydraulic rod that we used for the hammer. What a hodge podge of parts. This thing is great and the roller pully and hammer are chromed. I figure it at about 180 to 190 rpm at top speed. It feathers from a soft slow tap to a constant hit. There seems to be no problem with wobble or jumping. This was a concern that some I talked to had. It seems very stable at all speeds. My next job will be to start working with the dies. The top will be a cylinder that is rounded from just off center to the front and rear. The length is 16" and is 2 3/4" in dia. I believe I figured this to around 26 pounds? The bottom die will be an experiment of flat, radius and tapered. It amazed me the different types and shapes of dies that others use. And they all swear theirs is the best. I enjoyed listening to the whys and hows everyone had. Alot of sound advice out there. If things work out, I might be working it tommorow. Pretty exciting. Well it's off to bed. Hopefully tommorow I will have some charged batteries and I can post some pics. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidquality Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well It's tomorrow. you sleeping in or have you got this baby working yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 5, 2006 Author Share Posted October 5, 2006 Well that was exciting. Had a fun day in the garage today. Started by taking the new forge outside and gave it a first firing. I posted about it a short while ago. The forge worked well. The issues I had, I blame on the coal. I got some real trash last year and I just about out of it. Thank Goodness. A suggestion to anyone. If you can, get a tester bucket or two to try a new load of coal or get a return policy. A year of misery. Anyhow, we have the forge going, and I have two billets of five layers started for two knives from a month ago. This will make a good tester project to try the hammer. I did the welding by hand and used the hammer for drawing. Start simple, right? Well last night we did a test run and it was smooth. We just used a couple shims to give it four corner contact to the floor.. Worked like a charm. That was last night. Today? New rules. Things were going good to start. But I found that the way I put mt foot on it, I was slowly pushing it away. Well let me tell ya, it doesn't take a lot of space to get this thing jumping. Add a little air to a corner and it starts towards the wall, then gets more air and so on. So I tapconned some 1" by 2" oak to the floor around the for sides. Now It can't move sideways. Found the happy spot for the shims and then used a finish nail to pin them in. Seems to have fixed the problem. We'll be watching that. Made some radius to the hammer edges front and back. It was too sharp. I may take some more off as time goes by. Oh, did I mention I majored in T&E at S.T.U? I added another 3/4" plate to the first to build up the bottom die to 1 1/2" tall. I'll be trying different heights of bottom dies. Looking for the perfect space between hammer at bottom rest and bottom die. Right now, 1" looks good. The hammer has loosened up nicely. I removed the innermost seal on the bottom guide. It offered too much resistance for me. The outer seal is still in and does a pretty good job of retaining the grease. There is a 1/2" wide by 2" tall air space between the top and bottom guides. There was a port for a hydraulic line on the side. Perfect place for a grease fitting. Bingo, self lubricating. The hammer shows no signs of wear, on the sides or the face. The bottom die is soft steel plate but shows no signs of wear either. As long as the metal in between is hot and soft, wear should be slow. Well it's working together. Days end produced one damascus billet for a knife and a working hammer with a lot less bugs. Not bad. Probably won't be back on it till next week now. Gotta load for an October-fest tomorrow for this weekend. Ah, tis the life of a Blacksmith, I lead. Gobblerhttp://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1386/cat/500http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1387/cat/500http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/1385/cat/500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Which flat bar do you refer to. The flat bar for the bottom die was 3/4" x 3" x 3 1/2". now times two. I'm building up until I find the right spacing before I make a better die. The flat bar bracing the main post is 1/2" x 2". The flat bar for the vertical arms is about 1/4" x 1 1/4". The horizontal arms are about 1/2" x 1 1/2" with knuckles on the ends. What else? Make your questions as specific as you can, to get as specific an answer as I can give. We'll all get better at this. Heck, I don't even know the proper names for the parts I built. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 *Bump* How long would you expect a tire like that to last before the drive pulley wears through? And are you planning on making a top die or just using the shaft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Pook Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Looks like a nice homebuilt hammer. Any reason for not building an adjustment into the upper hammer tup, so you could adjust for your dies, tools, and material thickness? You could make a sliding collar on a shaft similar to a little giant. Another suggestion I have would be to build the toggle arms with threaded ends and attachment sleaves so you can adjust the preload on the spring. These 2 things would give you alot of adjustments for tuning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Easy. I am thinking the tire will last the life of the hammer. Actualy the brake will wear before the drive pully. But good lord, it has no weight to it. It was designed to carry 1/4th of a car. Time will tell. No on the top die. The hammer is all one piece. At this years Quad State, I had plenty of time to talk to Kim Thomas. I have known and liked Kim for a long time. Kim says he uses flat dies for most of his work and almost never changes the top. And Kim is one of those folks who's judgment I value and trust. So making the top one piece simplified a lot. Chris. I like the adjustable idea on the horisontal arms. And they are easy to replace if I get the urge. The design alowed me to work a billet yesterday that varied from 1/4" thick to 2" wide. It had no problem going from the flat to the edge with equal force. After a while I didn't have to slow it down to rotate the stock either. Just get used to the wide open rythem and go. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Well, I put another afternoon on the hammer yesterday. Weather is going to turn bad for the next handfull of days and my forge has to be used outside. I don't have the pipe in the garage yet. Well I needed to get the other billet made and this looked like my best shot for a week to get started. Had everything going by 12:30 pm. By 3:30 pm I was shutting down. I had finnished the billet. I was hoping to just get started. The hammer saved me a day and many sweaty hammer blows.. Awsome. The parts are getting used to each other and it is much smoother. The jumping is better with the new setup too. Had to make no adjustments to the shims the whole time. I found I could do a weld and draw in two heats now. What a wonderfull tool. Who ever thought this one up, was on thier A game that day. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candidquality Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 One thing I would recommend before using it again would be a safety guard in front of arms. I've heard about several just up and exploding one day. perhaps it's from lack of proper care, i'm not sure. But i'd rather invest in a piece of 3/8 plate that keeps sharp pointy things from flying off on me just in case of an accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 Candid. You read my mind. Actually a guard is on the list of improvements. I was also thinking about an explosion blanket over the spring. The arms are relatively easy to cover, though I realy don't think there is much there to go wrong.I am always open to suggestions in any direction. Oddly, the only thing to adjust could be the air preasure. I am of the mind that firm is better than soft. But heck, we're writing the book as we go, aren't we? Hmmm. So lets see. 26 lb. hammer, 76" cercumfrance on tire, 4" stroke and 2.75" diamiter on motor drive pully. Soooooo 76-4=72 72-26=46. 46-2.75=43.25. Yup. 43.25 lbs should be about right for my hammer. Ap Man. Yes I am delighted. I am just fortunate that all my guess work worked the first time. I would get started if you realy want to do it. With a little scrounging talent you can have one too. I have about 50 bucks in this thing thanks to alot of help from friends. Gobbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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