henerythe8th Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 Gobbler, Awesome looking tool. I want to build one, too. But it will have to wait, things are a bit messy in my life at the moment... An explosion blanket? How much does the spring compress? Will a blanket get in the way? Would it be helpful to place a well anchored, righteously sized, piece of slack wire rope through the center to catch the big chunks? When you make your guard I'd recommend making it easy to install/remove -- maybe spring pins through "posts" or "pegs" and to develop an inspection checklist--down and dirty to be employed often... For example: 1) Everything looks generally good 2) No burrs or major deformation of hammer/anvil 3) No visible damage/cracks in spring 4) Electrically sound 5) Guards in place etc, etc Just helps the rest of us share in your long term advice and knowledge--keep you around longer... Henry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Thanks Henry. Actually I was thinking of a piece of inner tube or radiator hose or fire hose. Whatever I find that can slide over the spring. No I don't feel there is enough preasure on the spring to be a danger. Actually the guard in my mind will be half plate steel on the bottom that has two pins out the bottom that slide into two pipes. The top being a shatter resistant lexan. This way I can SEE the arms and spring. I actually like to stop the hammer just before it reaches the top. I like to watch things while I work to make sure things are OK. I figure the small plate at the bottom will make a fine chalk board in front of me. I like to make notes. As far as maint., I do a lube and look regularly with most things anyway. I am into P.M. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlbrown Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 SIR, how much does your rig weigh? it is my understanding the one BAM is building is about 800 pounds. one of the items they tell you to bring when you attend the workshop, is 35 pounds of lead. i have no idea where they would put this. i would like to build my own hammer, and have talked to them about plans. it would seem they do not have plans, or perhaps they want to keep the workshop going as long as possible. i agree with some of the other post on this one, $1200.00 for the workshop, is pretty heavy on the pocketbook. good luck to all. wlbrown wright city, mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 12, 2006 Author Share Posted October 12, 2006 Wow. Sir? Don't I feel .................uh..........old. No wait, I am. Sorry. I went away for a little bit, but I'm back now. I would have to ball park about 400 pounds. I had thought about weighing the parts befor I started. But then I got busy before I remembered it. As for the lead, my guess would be that they build a box style hammer and pour lead into it to give it the wieght they desire. This would explain some of the photos that I had when I started building. I'm prety certain that I could move this by myself with a dolly if I realy had to. There isn't that much to it. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlbrown Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 HELLO TO ALL, even 400 pounds would be difficult for me to move, unless i used my tractor, and loader. have you used this rig much? would like to know if there is much vibration when it is running. how much offset is there on the drive mechanism. this would seem to set the amount of stroke you would have. just trying to get all the math in my head in case i find the parts to build one. the mechanism that holds the piston, is this from an old hydraulic cylinder? sorry to ask so many questions. good luck with your project. wlbrown wright city, mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveA Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 The lead goes part in the hammer head and part to cast a counterweight to balance the wheel. I'd say 700 or 800 pounds is about right. I moved mine with the loader on my tractor. Hammer standing on a concrete floor with no padding - for the test run after construction - was very loud. Fastened to a wood base made of laminated 4x6s and the base set in the gravel floor of my shop, it's much more bearable. Probably should wear hearing protection more than I do, anyway... I think the offset is about 4", which would at first seem to give an 8" stroke, but then the spring action makes the head move a bit more than that. One thing I've discovered... much like a lathe or a mill, the power hammer is not an open and shut, it's done, kind of acquisition. There's a lot of tooling that I didn't know I needed... But I can make a lot more of the power hammer tooling than I can the lathe tooling. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlbrown Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 HELLO AGAIN, more questions. how close does the piston come to actually hitting the anvil? what happens if you are hitting on a part that is very thick? it would seem the stroke is not adjustable, or is it? sorry for more questions, but this project has my mind working overtime. again, good luck with your project. wlbrown wright city, mo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted October 13, 2006 Author Share Posted October 13, 2006 Glad to see there is interest in this. Mr. Brown. Ask all the questions you want. I'm happy to help. I just said I could move it with a dolly. When I did move it, I just rocked it and moved it. 400 was a guess, it might be closer to 300 for all I know. It isn't heavy. The offset is 2". I found that most 25 lb. hammers were 2" or so. I found one at 1 3/4" last month. I found bigger hammers had bigger offsets but my hammer is in the 25 lb. range so I went with 2". Yes I did use a hydraulic cylinder. The housing got cut down to 9" long. The hammer is 16" of the rod. It is set right now that at bottom dead center, the hammer is less than an inch to the anvil. The beauty of this design is that the hammer floats. As you go faster, the hammer goes further and harder and can and will hit the anvil. And hard too. I wrote earlier that I worked a billet that was 1/4" thick and 2" wide. I could rotate it from flat to edge and it adjusted fine. I feel I can work wider stock, but 2" is what I HAVE worked. Steve. Thanks for the info on the lead. I had heard about counterbalances but did not put one on. That is on the "might do" list. It doesn't seem unhappy without it. As for the tooling, yes there is a lot out there. I figure it will come when it's needed. You are correct on the wood under the hammer. I made a bed out of 6x6 timbers. It is much friendlier on the concrete too. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ertwdan Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Gobbler, What size of spring did you use on this hammer? Approximately how much did you preload the spring? I've seen on some other tire hammers that had an adjustment for the spring. Does anyone know if this is really helpful? Is an adjustment on the horizontal arms helpful? I'm trying to determine how complex I should try and make the linkage for my hammer. Sorry for the flurry of questions, but I'm almost ready to commence construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 22, 2008 Share Posted April 22, 2008 Adjustments for arms and springs are really handy if you want to tune your hammer to get the most out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostfly Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 Prolly would have been best to start a new thread rather then dredge up a thread from 2006. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rawblacksmith Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 i like the dredge; i haven't been here that long, so it allows me to read the history. in the future, i'll skip over what i've read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Creek Blacksmith Posted May 8, 2009 Share Posted May 8, 2009 Thanks for all the info, our club did a build just before I got into blacksmithing. Our Hammer-In as last weekend with Clay demonstraiting, I was there on saturday only and didn't have a chance to talk with him. I guess I'll just have to look at one already built. I didn't want to cheat Clay out of any money if he had blue prints and/or a copyright on the tire Hammer. Thanks again for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Well, since this thread got brought back up I thought I would do an update. It's been three years now since I built the tire hammer and it has performed flawlessly. I have made some various bottom dies as the need required but that's it. The tire shows no signs of wear nor any of the pivot points. I mean really, the design of this thing puts very little pressure or tension on anything. The spring was covered by an inner-tube that was pulled snugly over the end to cover the whole spring. Still there. Just for giggles, I clocked the top speed at about 200 rpm or 14 mph. I recently got my web site up and running, Gobblerforge.com, and took a few shop photos so I have a current one of the hammer. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 What a nice spacious shop. Thanks for the pic. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 9, 2009 Share Posted May 9, 2009 :D I had a big pang of jealousy:D when I saw a that shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted May 9, 2009 Author Share Posted May 9, 2009 Thanks. Next saturday, it will be filled with folks for a hammer-in from northern Ohio,WRABA, and Pittsburg, PAABA. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgtwister Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 a clean shop! thats a sign of sick man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 Orgtwister is right, that shop is disgustingly neat , tidy, well organised and CLEAN. Mrs Mick must never be allowed to see that photo, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. All that and a superbly simple tyre hammer and grand bellows. GobblerForge, could the lack of wear in the pivot points be in the greater part due to the excellent design concept of using the hydraulic piston in the cut down cylinder, thus eliminating a lot of friction, stiction and allround freeplay in the hamer mechanism? I am mightily impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted May 10, 2009 Author Share Posted May 10, 2009 (edited) I'm sure that is part of it. The round cylinder, as opposed to a square hammer seams to spread its side pressure out more evenly. And it doesn't slam back and forth or have much friction due to a close running fit, dissimilar metals, grease and the fact that a longer distance from top of hammer to pivot point on the tire give it less side to side motion. I wish I could take full credit but the idea came from a very smart friend of mine. When I was showing different power hammer designs to him, he looked at the hammers and said "That should be round". It's amazing how some folks have a gift. At the risk of sounding prideful, I was thinking, since this concept of using a round hammer is not the standard way of hammer building, maybe this could be named the "Gobbler Forge Hammer Design" or some such. Lots of folks have their name attached to different designs of tools. Maybe this can be mine. Gobbler Edited May 10, 2009 by GobblerForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 10, 2009 Share Posted May 10, 2009 How about, "The Gobbler Mod"? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 I had a 50# old shop built? fullering hammer that had a round tup shaft that was made 50+ years ago and have seen a mechanical hammer in an old videotape on japanese knifemaking that had a round tup. So using a round tup for mechanical hammers isn't new; transferring that option to the tire hammer may be. It's a great idea as it's easier to get good round than rectangular solids! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 I'm not claiming to be the first but frankly I have to say that I have never seen a power hammer with a round hammer. Nor have I seen a tire hammer with a round hammer. So yes, I will say it is my idea because I didn't get the idea from looking at someone else's hammer. Thomas, you use the word "tup", I've not heard that before. Could you give some history to it. Gobbler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Have you seen very many european and asian powerhammers Gobbler? If all you are used to is what's common around here then you might even think that the "normal" shape of an anvil is to have only 1 horn...If I get a chance I'll look through "Pounding out the Profits" and see if they show any American round tupped hammers. Look up the term tupping and the application of it to a reciprocating shaft becomes clear... It too is a fairly common term in power hammers in my experience. If you ever get to Columbus OH go to their main library and see if they still have the videotape on making japanese kitchen knives that they used to have when I lived there. It shows a round tupped mechanical powerhammer IIRC. No problem with folks coming up with the same ideas independently---like pattern welding. Pattern welding seems to have been "invented" everywhere that the bloomery process of making wrouhgt iron was used. Part of that process is forging out and folding/stacking and forge welding the wrought iron repeatedly to refine the inclusions in it... Some cultures probably got it from their neighbors others may very well come up with it on their own... I remember meeting a fellow at the Knifemaker's Guild Show back in the early 1980's that was big on how he was going to build a knife that had a gun barrel in the center spine that would shoot the point---"Oh like the one from the Renaissance shown in 'Arms and Armor Annual---A Wheellock Dagger from the Court of the Medici' " he was surprised that he wasn't the first by several centuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GobblerForge Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 (edited) Thanks for trivializing my idea. By the way, I looked up tupping. Frankly I think we would be better served to continue using the terms hammer and anvil. Gobbler Edited May 14, 2009 by GobblerForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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