DAmascus...

[Rich Hale]

There has really been alot of interest in the chat room lately on welding layered steel and making billets. Let me share a few thoughts. This is not a starting project...most folks can do it but it will produce a lot of failed attenpts first before you get it right. If you learn basic forging,,,how metal moves under the hammer and how to read proper working heats you will have a head start. Learning those skills take time and a lot of practice. Then you will need the equipment, tols and practice to produce perfect forge welds everytime. Not just most of the time...everytime. Forge welding takes time to learn, There is no reason to try and weld up some pricey steel into a billet if there is a prediction of failure. TAke the time to get these basics down and then think of billets..make it a reachable goal. In between practice,,,dureing which you can make al ot of usefull items..read all you can on knives,,,And pay close attention to heat treating...Just a few thoughs....Good luck

[Dodge]

I second those thoughts Rich. Like I said before, I also had a good teacher . I may have got lucky on the first attempt but it wasn't a breeze, to say the least. Lots of factors to take into consideration. Like Rich says, Its not a "beginner" project

[julian]

Rich, I always hear you say that people come to your house once to try a billet on the power hammer--and they vow to never do it again Laminated Steel's tough to make any good.

[oakwoodforge]

Rich , I have you, JPH, Ed Caffery, Jake Powning and Trying-it to blame for my fascination with damascus. And I must say that that you all helped me quite a bit along the way. But Boy Oh boy what a pile of scrap I created over the years. I used up quite a bit of expensive tool steels learning the basics. You bring up a very good point. If you can't make a blade from plain 'ol blade steel, or even forge a decent S hook or pair of tongs. You might have a bit of troubleforging a damascus blade. Afterall nobody walks up to an anvil for their first time and forges a masterpeice.

Jens

[V]

So, makeing damascus is one of my goals, please tell me (I can imagine it), I must start by welding some iron before trying something like cable, a billet or chainsaw. am I right?

[polarbearforge]

Nope. When I teach people how to pattern weld, I have them weld cable first and then go to layered. (Assuming that you've forged before.)

Jamie

[Sam Salvati]

I agree cable is alot easier than a billet.

[Nolano]

Yeah, it is. I have a partially made knife out of cable. I got almost all of it, except for a part in the middle, which just refused to weld. I think it was due to a problem with the forge I was using.

[julian]

Cable is great forge welding practice, and if it's good steel you'll get a nice knife out of it. I recommend folding the cable a couple times, and working it at welding temp. the whole time; that solved my gap problem.

[Sam Salvati]

I would love to try and make a cable, out of some really good steel wires and stuff. Like forge out/buy some 1095 and then mix in some wrought iron cable, that would be neat I bet.

[HWooldridge]

Cable makes an interesting pattern - especially if you leave the handle so the original material can be seen - but it is more or less homogenous material. In other words, since it's not evenly mixed strands of wrought iron and 1095, the etch doesn't look the same as a planned billet of materials designed to reveal a specific pattern. This is simply a point that shouldn't be ignored in the final product and not a criticism.

The primary purpose of the various pattern welding techniques used around the world before the industrial age was to produce a usable item - with pleasing architecture a secondary (although important) result. In current times, the art is more important than function. This is not to denigrate the performance of damascus in the real world but finished appearance now outweighs edgeholding in most applications.

[ThomasPowers]

One thing I point out is that in earlier times a good pattern in you sword indicated that it was done by a top level smith who took a lot of time and so it was probably an indication of the quality of the piece as well as "purty".

Thomas

[V]

I see the point, just wander about a pile of cheap scrap compared to a pile of expesive scrap in the process of learning.

[DocDrew]

for anybody contemplating Damascus, the key is being a very consistent forge welder. So before you go using up any fancy stock, simply use that old scrap you've got laying around, and work on welding. You can stack it and practice with a billet, and guess what? all the mistakes that you'd get with expensive tool steel can be replicated with 1018.

[ThomasPowers]

Well if you are interested in going for knives the knife alloys do weld a bit differently than 1018: mainly that the higher the carbon content the lower the welding temp and alloys with a lot of Ni, Cr, etc will be harder to weld due to their oxides being harder to remove and so a more aggressive (and toxic) flux is suggested. It is generally easy to find scrap/free high C stuff to play with along with the mild stuff.

I haven't found any cheap 1018 in a while, A36 is what you get most places you ask for mild steel---which is ain't!

Thomas

[V]

I ´ve heard A36 and A32, and never knew what application are for.

[Tyler Murch]

Victor, those are junk yard casserole steels. They don't have to be a certain alloy, mix, makeup, whatever you want to call it. They just have to meet certain strength requirements.

[V]

thanks Tyler.