I have some stock that is probably getting kinda heavy for tongs, it's 1/2x1" x 14" and 3/4x1" ~14" to make matters worse, right now I don't have any tongs. It's getting cold up here in the NE and instead of taking the time to start making tongs I thought of either buying tongs or simply welding a piece of steel onto one end. My only question with welding a piece of steel onto a billet is how do I make sure the handle doesn't become part of the stock? Or do you just make sure that a the section welded near the handle always stays away from the bulk of the stock?

Weld your handle on and forge just up to it so you know were the handle material starts / cut off handle when forging is to your satisfaction. - JK

Okay i'll try that. I guess i'm nervous that i'm going to somehow bring part of the handle into the harder material, but I guess that really doesn't happen.

Tongs can and are used for mat'ls much larger than your working, I've used tongs for 2" x 2" square stock very effectively. I just do not have any reason to use any larger stock than that as of yet. In the forging industry - this is small stuff. - JK

Edited October 18, 200916 yr by jeremy k

So when and where do you go tongs versus welded handle. Or is it just preference?

Mostly - it will depend on if your stock is long enough to hold without feeling the heat in your hands as in..... short pieces = tongs/wleded handle vs. longer stock that has the handle built in . - JK

What are you making out of this stock ?

Edited October 18, 200916 yr by craig
Misread OP

What are you making out of this stock ?

I don't know really yet, i'm just playing around. :p

For damascus, I just weld a handle on, your forge up to the handle, then cut it off, and grind both ends so the that welded material is gone, and then continue with your billet as you want.
Not to go off topic, I think this pertains to this thread, I grind both surfaces to be welded, and I weld the front, then weld the back of the billet, and grind the back welding clean, then weld a handle on. I always have the problem of the handle falling off. What the heck am i doing wrong is that just one of those things that you can't do anything about.

Avadon, I have attached the end of one of billets that I have roughed out. This is the blade tip. I grinded until i thought I got rid of the welding junk, and then grinded more off of it just to make sure. Then I forged the billet into rough shape and rough grinded it to check the pattern and that I had no inclusions, etc, and this is what I ended up with. Hope this explains and puts the fear of getting welding junk in your material away.

oops, just realized that it would be stupid to attach a file since you can not see it.

Sorry for the bad picture, had to use my cell phone.


Also, is this stock a solid billet or a damascus billet?

I much prefer a welded handle to large stock, or long enough stock not to have to use tongs, especially under the powerhammer.

One method would be to use a couple of metal clamps to hold a handle on.. Saw that suggested in the cosira book for 6" square or something like that.

At 14" if your working an end no tongs needed, a glove maybe. If your just fooling around the 1x1/2 would make a good size of tongs for holding the 3/4" and bigger.

Ditto to what Sam said. I don't have a powerhammer, but me and a friend forge a lot and take turns striking, and holding it with tongs is simply dangerous and really hard to do.

Well these pieces are not damascus or anything like that. They are just hacksaw blades, sawblades, hardened steel strapping, and other misc hard stuff I want to try forging. This stuff is all fusion welded. No filler material to try to keep the material the same.





I think i'm gonna try welding some handles on them cause at this moment I only have one tong, uno, lol and it is only for 1/4 small sheet pieces.

There is nothing wrong or unsafe with holding heavy stock with tongs. I am currently using tongs to hold 2 3/4" round while forging under a power hammer. The tongs must fit properly but they are removed while stock is in the forge so that they do not heat up unlike welded on handles. I am not saying that welded on handles should not be used but tongs have been used on very large stock for centuries. The shop my hammer came out of commonly worked 6" or larger stock with tongs and a jib crane. The largest pair they had in the shop were 16" tongs.

Edited October 18, 200916 yr by JNewman

Tongs are only dangerous and hard to use when they are not fit properly to the stock being held. As for power hammer work - the key is to keep the stock feeding in or out of the dies Level. - JK

Edited October 18, 200916 yr by jeremy k

Avadon that looks like it is gonna suck to forge by hand. lol. I do that all the time, but with my friend so we take turns striking. Man it sucks, but it get's the damascus made so it's worth it.

I'm not saying holding large stock with tongs is wrong or right, just saying I don't prefer it.

Avadon that looks like it is gonna suck to forge by hand. lol. I do that all the time, but with my friend so we take turns striking. Man it sucks, but it get's the damascus made so it's worth it.

Oh noes.. really? You think it's going to be hard? Why just because it will not want to stay together or because it's hardened material?

Looks like a real workout there. Keep hydrated and have a good cardio afternoon!
Phil

Man, you been a busy boy! Yeah, on stacked billets, welding a handle on makes sense.

I recently was working some 2.5" square stock about 20" long---we welded a piece of 1" sq stock about 4' long to serve as a working handle to it. much easier than tongs and you don't have to worry about messing a pair of tongs up through forge heat or powerhammer oops! (Lighter too than a set of tongs for that heavy a work piece!)

M brothers---you ever work in dispatch in OKC area? The problem you have with a handle on a billet is that generally you are reducing the size of the billet in half before folding and welding so the weld size is also getting reduced in half *and* scaled off, shocked, etc. So if you started with a good 3/8" weld and fold 4 times you end up with your weld now being 3/64" and extremely scaled to boot.

Most pros expect to have to chop and re-weld the handle to the billet several times of the course of welding it up.

I've welded bandsaw steel and banding material before by hand. Didn't think it was too bad but I only did one billet. Gotta make sure is hot enough all the way through. I also weld handles on my billets when forge welding. I use a press and not a trip hammer. Don't have a trip hammer so don't really know how it works. I have never had to cut off the handle and re-weld back on, though I have seen a lot of guys that have. I have gotten close. I just weld to the end then when I fold the billet I will intentionally waste about and 1 1/2" of it so the what is folded is never close to the handle. Cut that peice of when you cut off the handle.

Fred

Avadon I didn't mean like hard to forge, as soon as you heat it up, the hardness goes away. I am saying that those are some huge billets, and it's going to be fun to forge them out by hand :)

I've welded bandsaw steel and banding material before by hand. Didn't think it was too bad but I only did one billet. Gotta make sure is hot enough all the way through. I also weld handles on my billets when forge welding. I use a press and not a trip hammer. Don't have a trip hammer so don't really know how it works. I have never had to cut off the handle and re-weld back on, though I have seen a lot of guys that have. I have gotten close. I just weld to the end then when I fold the billet I will intentionally waste about and 1 1/2" of it so the what is folded is never close to the handle. Cut that peice of when you cut off the handle.

Fred

Ahh okay that was the nugget of information I was looking for. thanx

Avadon I didn't mean like hard to forge, as soon as you heat it up, the hardness goes away. I am saying that those are some huge billets, and it's going to be fun to forge them out by hand

But I can retemper them right? Or is that impossible? Yah they might be a lot of work.. hehe we'll if it gets to silly i'll just work one or two and save the rest for when i'm ready to go rambo on them.