Pinjas Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Hello, I thought some here might be interested in something I am working on, it's still just the drawing phase but I have a few really interesting ideas that I haven't really seen else where, well maybe one of them I have. The general thought here is that instead of making a wood burning fireplace out of a mild steel, make it out of aluminum. Aluminum, in my mind, would expel heat -much- better than mild steal. Which is the general idea of a fire place. Some fire places put a metal chain over the door, that might put out heat well, but it still seems far less efficient than what I have in mind. The idea is to make everything about of 1/8 inch thick aluminum except the top which would be made out of 1/4 inch thick. Heat rises, I am sure much of the heat absorbed would be concentrated on the top, the extra thickness would avoid major warping and allow the fire place to excel in heat exhaust. I also believe that placing something of a compartment for water on the top would be wise, some people place a kettle, but kettles can be spilled and I don't love the idea of splashing boiling hot water upon my feet or pets. My last idea, and one that I think is fantastic, is adding a hole on the bottom of a fireplace making a sort of tube sticking downward. The tube's hole is covered with a removable lid of some sort. This can be used in one of two ways. The first way is to attach a hose to the tube that is connected to a suck vac. Once turned on and the tube opened you can clean out the fire place in a hurry with a little sweeping, even with just a bit of newspaper. The other method is a hose. Most basements have a nice big drain some place, just place the tube above the hole and fill the fire place with some water, open the tube and the cleaning can commence. The only part I am not completely certain about is the location of the smoke exit. Anyone think it matters if it is place on the top or rear? I imagine placing it at the rear might allow the heat more time to be exposed to the metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 (edited) You worry about splashing hot water but not about splashing hotter molten Al? (not to mention warping when heated) Our wood stove gets up to Al melting temps fairly easily. If you want to get more heat out of it look into making baffles that you can circulate air around. I do not advise using a vacuum when cleaning up a wood stove unless it is a week or so after the last usage. I have had friends burn up their shopvacs when a small coal well buried in the ashes got blown by the shopvac into a vigorous life. So not good during the heating season when you have to clean out regularly! Why not make a removable ash tray you can just take out and dump? May I suggest you do a through examination of top of the line woodstoves and decide what features you would like in yours. What I have done with mine is to add a slab of soapstone, an old laboratory bench top, on top of it to act as a heat sink like the fancy expensive stoves. Also we really like the observation window in the front of our woodstove. Edited September 30, 2009 by ThomasPowers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Aluminum melts at 1220 degrees F. Are you just 'Assuming' that a wood fire never gets that hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 Yeah and aluminum won't change color before it melts. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinjas Posted October 1, 2009 Author Share Posted October 1, 2009 I often heat aluminum with propane, I don't entirely know what you folks mean by 'not changing color'. When I heat up a piece it gets to a glowing red. I was using a piece of aluminum the other day to cut the housing around 2 gauge wire. It was glowing red, orange, and what I found to be really weird is sometimes when I use a new piece it sparks like a sparkler. It's fun to watch. I am not assuming fire doesn't get that hot, I am assuming that thanks to aluminum's extremely high thermal conductivity the heat will be absorbed and dissipated very quickly. Maybe I will just scrap the idea, the more I think about it the more I feel that it might need to be made out of even thicker than 1/4th inch aluminum. I just had an interesting idea. I am going to get a 1/4th inch place and hit it with some propane, if I can get serious warping going on or even melting, then I will know that it is a bad design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 (edited) Have you looked up EPA approved wood burning stoves? Companies have spent a lot of money developing a stove, and the basic information is readily available on the websites of many manufacturers. The major design features are nearly identical for many units: Retarding heat transfer out of the firebox to encourage complete combustion, preheating supply air and using the exhaust gasses to heat the stove shell is how these stoves achieve high performance. I have been looking to purchase a fireplace insert for over a year so I have done some research on this. That my budget and reality do not line up is a separate issue. If you are interested in a free standing stove the price tag is much MUCH more modest. Phil PS check out Welcome to The Wood Heat Organization Inc. Edited October 1, 2009 by pkrankow ps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Pinjas, Keep thinking. When you get an idea, do just what you did here, put it out there for others to check for you and see if you are missing something. Eventualy you will come up with a winner. Aluninum doesn't change color until just at the melting point, unlike steel, which lets you know aproximately how hot is is over a gradual 1400 degree range until it is white hot and sparkling, the melting point. As far as this concept goes, an overfired wood stove easily surpaces the melting temp of aluminum. However, like a copper or aluminum clad cooking pan, it may be possible to have radiant panels, not in contact with the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Pinjas, Don't feel too beat up about this. I was also thinking that you never mentioned the type of fireplace you were working with. In my masonry fireplace I put a piece of 1/8 inch sheet steel behind the fire as a fireback to radiate heat out into the room and protect the brickwork, which is showing age. This is an interpretation of a historic item and it does make my fireplace perform better. You are right that there is a lot of improvement on fireplaces since most units are only for decoration or based on designs over a century old. This makes for a smelly, drafty heat wasting appliance. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainman Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 If you want better heat transfer, why dont you put some pipes across the top of the stove hooked up to a blower which forces hot air out of the interior of the pipes and into the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpeter Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Wear welding safety equipment while you weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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