dragon leaf Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Have large driveway railing job. It has about 400 collars. Any ideas on sealing them? Ive thought about using some silicone after they are installed to seal up cracks. Or possibly painting them first and using a torch to do the final two bends, as they are already formed in a "U" shape. Any idea is a good one. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Can you price in having the whole railing hot dip galvanised? Thats what I do when I use collars on outdoor work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGropp Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 Your best bet is to build the railing in sections that are manageable in size and send them out to be hot dip galvanized. Assemble the sections on site with galvanized or stainless steel fastenings . Allow at least a 1/16'' clearance in any holes for fastenings . Any hollow sections need to be vented with a 1/4'' hole at each end of the void section. Do this yourself where it is least visible or the plant workers will do it for you in the most expedient way with a torch Figure the cost of the hot dipping as well as of the transport to and from the dipping plant and some extra time to clean up the drips into your quote. A selection of wood rasps work well for knocking off the drips and bumps in the soft zinc coating that are inevitable. The galvanized coating should weather outdoors for about a year or be etched with a light acid and rinsed thoroughly before being painted. I've done hundreds of feet of exterior railings and this is the best finishing scheme that I have found to weather proof work that involves collaring , wraps or mortise and tenon joinery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokshasa Posted September 11, 2009 Share Posted September 11, 2009 does the client want a rust free finish ? or is it you that wants it rust free? i'm pretty sure in the days of past they where not as concerned with rust or where they? how long before the rust would become a problem? are they going to want to pay for the galvy treatment? sounds like it could be expensive but then again...what do i know lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon leaf Posted September 11, 2009 Author Share Posted September 11, 2009 I want it rust free. My reputations involved. Ive thought of galvanizing. But what a nightmare. These rails are 23ft long x 9ft tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokshasa Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 whew rough? perhaps stainless steel collars or brass or something like that, you could paint the rail then place the collars and if you used some low heat metal like brass or something like that it would't burn the paint away? but then there is the problem of tarnish so i guess it'd all come to the same huh? wow tough one, this a point that was brought up in brians "collars" post, perhaps collars isn't the best way to go here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 Dragon leaf, this is one reason we ask that you to go to user cp and enter your location. If your near salt water spray or wet conditions on a daily basis it is much different from the dry Australian outback. Look at the finishes used neat the coast and how the metal was protected against the temperature changes and salt water. Has anyone tried attaching sacrificial anodes to railings to help combat rust? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) When coating collared items in paint, the method I use is as follows. Primer paint the rail, primer paint the scroll or other item to be fitted, make the scroll and fit the collars hot, straight from the forge not with a gas torch. (Probably a good idea here to say how I make and fit the collars) The collars are forged around a mandrel to the appropriate finished shape and size, then using scrolling tongs, at a bright red heat, I open the collar, and then immediately fit the collar securing the items in place by squeezing using tongs, and then hammering, using a backing block (If it is a shaped collar then use a top and bottom swage) to close the collar into position. You should hear the collar cooling and tightening onto the assembly. Then wire brush lightly around the area, I prefer to use the gas forge for the collars I then use a highly diluted primer that will run with a capillary action into the joints around the collar and rail, then primer paint over the top of this, and then continue with finish painting the whole, I am located on an estuary and find this gives good protection. I always give instructions to the client that the railings should be regularly inspected and maintained if there is any signs of rust appearing. If this happens within 12 months I will treat it myself. In over 30 years of doing them this way I have never had to go back and rectify any items done like this, and I have bits outside in the garden that have been there for over 15 years and still no signs of rust at the collars and in the original paint, no overpainting. Like everything else preperation is the key. Edited September 12, 2009 by John B Added info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon leaf Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 That sounds like a plan. The collars in this case are decorative. So I think I can use a thinner material in which I can paint them and set them cold, which would be great. It comes down to the collars being snug enough to stay in place. As much as Id like, galvanising isnt gonna happen. @glenn Will fix that. But in this case condensation happens anywhere. With or without salt. And being the type of thing that doesnt let air circulate efficiently covering it up is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 I did some work for a guy who used what I believe was an aluminized paint that he dipped his parts into. It was really thin and went everywhere. When parts came out of the dip they was bright silver. Powder coating works really well too, especially on sandblasted surfaces. When I had my shop a guy came by selling paint. All that I remember was that it was a water based paint that ran about $85 a gallon. He handed me a test sample that consisted of a 2x4 piece of sheetmetal, and challenged me to get it to crack, flake, or chip. We bent it in half, and beat on it with a ball peen hammer on the anvil, and it held up. If you can figure out what it was it should do what you want it to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Powder coating (for me) works only if the entire surface was sandblasted clean. Once the powder is applied and baked, it can be damaged from internal rust expanding and compromising the coating from within, or if the coating is compromised by nicks, cracks, or other external damage allowing water to get under the coating. I have a couple of pieces that once the rust started, the only way to stop it was to remove all the powder coating and stall all over. There is no way that I know of to patch (resurface a small area) of powder coating. The new stuff will look different from the old material. I am back to painting things so I can repair only the area that needs repaired and match the colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Glenn, I'm curious, was the powdercoating applied over galv? I can't imagine having work powdercoated without hot dip galv underneath. In my experience the powdercoat won't absolutely cover every bit especially with deep recesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 This was professionally done powder coating. They sand blasted to their satisfaction, and then applied the powder to bare metal and baked the product. No galvanizing involved. At one time they were talking about chemically dipping the parts to clean them, but that never became a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisG Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 My two cents........ I would go powder coating, we have it used alot up here. One guy I know of does it alot for his work and it looks very good. The colors available make it a good choice also. But definitely let them sand blast it as they would be responsible if the paint peals due to missed rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon leaf Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 I've had limited success with powder coating. The biggest problem is making it important to the hourly employees doing the work. If they dont care your sunk. It will be very hard for them to get behind the collars on this job. Beyond that if it gets scratched its done for. Cleaning is crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
origami roofs Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) I have made a mailbox post with collars and I was looking for finishing advise when I ran across this message and now you have me rethinking my approach. I am considering brazing the collars shut then painting. Another idea i had was to prime and paint then just oil or wd forty the collars to get a protective film within. any input on these two ideas would be useful. byron Edited October 17, 2009 by origami roofs expand idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce wilcock Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 repairing old wrought iron we have found a lot of lead used to fill voids in collars and joints , i have tinned with soft solder using bakers fluid flux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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