Punching/Drifting Lubricants

[T-Gold]

Okay... I know you guys who use coal forges generally use coal dust for punching lube. What else works? I've heard beeswax, Nevr-Seize, grease (?), graphite dust... I was wondering if sawdust worked, since that seems kinda conceptually similar to coal (carbon + volatiles, right?), but is there anything that I'm leaving out?

[bruce wilcock]

we used pine saw dust in drop hammer dies the entire works got full of smoke on a still day and if you got to mutch on the forgings had a pitted finish and the dies opened like a bomb ,terrible stuff,fine if some one eles is using it and you are paying them well to use it

[JerryCarroll]

When we moved from town to the farm (40 years ago :? ) there was a 3 gallon bucket of Havolin (sp) axle grease half full sitting in the corner. I'm still using outa that for other stuff too but it's all I use for my drifts and punches. Boat trailers and vehicles get their own grease!

[Ed Thomas]

Bruce, before the board crash, you had asked a similar question... an alternative to tar. Did you have any luck? I just bought some neverseize... or something like that... I'll have to go look at the can... at a tailgate to try out. I realize you're usually working bigger punching than most of us.

Been too busy in construction to forge lately. I got a local co-op opening in two weeks and no inventory!

[the other dave]

Two weekends ago we had Bob Patrick demonstrating at our annual conference and Tom Clark ws also there providing the air hammer for Bob. Bob was having trouble punching a hole and mentioned he likes to use anti-sieze from the auto parts store. For the second hole Tom says, " here, use some of my lubricant on your punch." Bob dips his punch in the stuff, lines up on the steel and bang, bottoms out his punch on the anvil with a single hit. "See Bob," says Tom, "'thats "ye olde slippery slick stuff '."

I usually use high temperature anti-seize when punching, though it tends to be a little messy and will burn if the punch is too hot.

"Ye olde slippery slick stuff" is three parts graphite powder, one part molybdenum disulfide powder, a surfactant and water. I've used it and yeah, it's about the best I've found to date.

[woodtick]

There is always fine dust/powder left in the bottom of my buckets of charcoal, would this work like coal dust?

[Stephan P]

Dave, sounds like great stuff but to be honest I have know idea what a couple of the ingrediants are. Any ideas where to find "one part molybdenum disulfide powder, (and) a surfactant" and in what form. Are they used in common household things or do we have to get them from a chemical supply company? Thanks.

[the other dave]

Well, let's see, one surfactant is soap, especially a liquid dishwashing soap. Powdered graphite can usually be found in hardware stores in a tube being sold as a lock lubricant. But moly disufide, that's more difficult to come by. And expensive. Soooooooooo......

I usually make my own lubricant starting with powdered graphite, add some liquid dish soap to make a paste and then add a little water till you get a black liquid. Dip a chisel in and when you withdraw it, it should have a thin coating of graphite and soap on it.

And remember, dipping when your oil-quench tool is red hot is is too late and not recommended.

[HWooldridge]

All I can say is that y'all must do an awful lot of punching. :shock: I have used anti-sieze on occasion but never really needed anything more than some coal dust most of the time. I drill most holes anyway...

[the other dave]

I also use lubricant when drifting. And sometimes when hot cutting a big piece, for example 1 1/2 inch square or 2 inch round, putting some lubricant on the hot cut seems to help.

[Shane Stegmeier]

http://www.bigbluhammer.com/products/puncheize.htm

15$ american for 4oz that mixes with one pint of water. I haven't coughed up for it but have seen it used in demos several times. And I try to lubricate cutting chisels, drifts and punchs when ever I use them. I may move this up on the priority list.

[Ed Thomas]

Woodtick: Nobody answered your question about charcoal dust directly, so I guess you'll just have to try it and get back to us. Actually, I'm sure the charcoal dust will do some good. I presume you are referring to actual good charcoal, not the barbecue briquet dust, but either one will probably work. The lubricant is actually what's left after the coal dust burns away. Unless the charcoal dust is 100% pure carbon, there ought to be some benefit.

[Stephan P]

Finn, is that the same stuff that the other Dave was talking about? It looks very similar if not the same.

[Shane Stegmeier]

Yep, pretty much. Tom used bring Yuri Hoffi over to teach in his school till there was a falling out. Tom still has some of Yuri's students like Tsur Saddan come over and teach at his school or help with demos. Big Blu and B3 Design now are the ones who get Yuri over here to teach. I think Tom might sell the same stuff, but I am not sure. I know he uses it:-)

[the other dave]

Tom's not selling this lubricant, yet. But I know he said he is considering it. In the meantime, you could buy it from B3 or make it yourself.

[Stephan P]

I found some similar stuff here at the local home depot, has powdered graphite and says it can resist high temperatures. We'll see how it does in the spray format. Think it might be called something like Loobit.

[R.Smith]

I use either ground up green coal...green because its the escaping gases from the burning coal that causes the release (old coffee grinder works great) or Felpro Moly Dry lube mold release, available from McMaster Carr for $8 a can. Its a spray that dries leaving a heat resistant film. Its great for drifting.

[Ed Thomas]

Roger: I think you struck us speechless. How did you do that? :shock:

Is the accelerant in that Felpro Moly Dry lube flammable?

[Ralph]

Coal dust as a punch lube.
Yes the fine powder found at teh bottomof the bucket is coal dust.

I usually do not need a lube but if I do I usually hammer a small piece of green coal and use that. If I have a can of grease that is almost gone I will keep it handy so I can dip the punch.

[R.Smith]

Ed,

Yes, its flammable, but you put it on the tool cold. Its usually good for 3 or 4 trips thru the stock before it needs another shot. It doesent take much. I usually save it for larger holes 1" and up. The small stuff I just wail away on.

The best tool for drifting is a proper sized backing plate.... makes life a lot easier, and the hole a lot nicer.

This may be obvious but, dipping the punch in water before dipping it in the ground up coal keeps the powder on the punch. I only say this because Ive seen people actually try to sprinkle the stuff on the hot stock.

[Swamp Fox]

When you punch holes, put the bolster block over the hardie hole and a can of water under the hardie hole. The punch falls through the hardie and into the water where it is easy to get to, and kept cool.

[jimbob]

Frankford Arsenal Technical Grade Moly 8 oz
Product #: 677866

Our Price: $14.29

MidwayUSA - Search Results

[tbrforge]

check out BP1023/ BP1024/ BP1025 Uri has the answer, the cost seems in keeping with my budget also

[keykeeper]

I haven't really done a whole lot of punching/drifting yet, but so far coal dust works fine for me.

Oh yeah, and the punch lube that Glenn sells through Iforgeiron works pretty darn good, from what I've done so far with it. Thanks Glenn.

[chainsaw]

T-Gold, a friend of mine who has been a ferrier since 1972 started me using Forshners hoof packing for punching lube. Works great, just stick a wad somewhere at your anvil, never drys out, and at 15 bucks for 4 lbs, it will last several lifetimes..