Dave W. Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hello, I am still new to smithing so if this is a dumb question please forgive me. When I forge I bring the metal up to temp, hammer it into shape, and put it back in the heat. But when I take it out the next time to work it my previous work is gone. Right now I am trying to take a rod and flatten it out so I can try and make a knife but whenever I flatten the metal and reheat it, it comes out like I never even flattened it after the first heating. Does anyone here know what is going on with my metal? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Hi, What metal are you using? How hot are you getting it? How hard are you hitting it? What shape are you producing? If you have deformed it, it should stay deformed, reheat and forge further. Unless you are getting it too hot and the outer surface is being melted away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W. Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 The metal is 1045 steel How hot I get it varies because I am still learning how to control my fire, but I notice I have the problem when it gets heated to yellow. I hit it hard I guess. Hard enough to work it at least. I am trying to make a blade shape in the long run but like I said I can't get past flattening it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Probably a tad too hot, and not hitting it hard enough, having said that, You say you cant get past flattening out, thats your initial objective, The shaping of the item is dependant on forming/forging techniques, I would think if you are attempting to make a knife, the metal stock removal by manual means (file, grinder, linisher) would be the way to go for your first one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Dave How big a hammer are you using? You may be getting too hot like John says, but I am unsure. Does the steel look "wet" or "shiny"? It may be worth while to practice flattening, or drawing out mild steel,before making a knife, just to get used to how to make steel move. The higher the carbon content the more "resistant" the steel will be the forging. High carbon steel stays harder even with hot. If you overheat high carbon, it falls apart kind of like cast iron when it heated and hit, crumbles and scatters. Also consistent heat also will help, try to get it orange/light yellow every time. Its better to pull it a little cool then too hot, you can always get it hotter, but its hard to undo overeating damage. Overall, keep at it, practice will get you where you want to be. Good Luck! Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 A blade is one of the pickiest things to forge: you need to get the correct forging temp, need to stop before it gets too cold, need to hit it just right to prevent hammer dings, need to worry about grain growth and decarburization and lastly----all the heat treat issues. Doing one without help as one of your first projects is rather like having your first driving lesson on the New Jersey Turnpike during evening rush hour after dark in the rain... I strongly suggest you forge an S hook or 12 and attend some of the local ABANA affiliate meetings and learn the basics first! I've been forging for over 28 years now and even with me standing over a new student advising and helping I won't let them do a blade as their first project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Hale Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 You may also want to spend a lot of time reading on heer about foregeing and what it takes to get going in smithing. Lots to learn. Get some knowledge and then if you can go to a forgeing event you will find you time was well spent and you will learn even more. Now to your steel. Sgteel does not have aplastic memory like other materials; that is tosay if you put a dent or divot in it that has to be removed mechanically, heating or overheating will not return it to the shape it was in earlier. At times I have wished that it cold or would. Yoiu did not say what size the steel was but if the metal is on the thin side it will lose a lot of heat as you move between the heat source and the anvil.If the anvil is not solidly mounted a lot of the force of your hammer strikes will be absorbed and less effective at moving metal. For you to move hot metal it has to be hot at the time of the strikes, reheated as needed and solidly pinched between the anvil and the hammer. If the metal is thin or you feel there may be a delay in moving from heat to anvil you may benefit from a simple drill. With the forge cold. take the metal just like you were going to forge and move it from the forge to the anvil and prepare to strike. Have the hammer you will use in your hammer hand and hold the steel with your other hand and m ove it quickly and gain that skill if you feel it will help. Count to two. In that time you should be able to move and raise the hammer over the piece. When I started I would remove steel with hammer hand, lay it on a cold anvil while I tried to find the hammer. drop it a time or two when I tried to switch it to other hand. None of that worked out that well. Last comment: if you are able to figure out wot is going on and get that blade forged, do all the clean up work to make a nice piece, and then heat treat it you will find that 1045 does not have enough carbon to make a good working blade and it takes the same work as does a higher carbon steel. There is a lot of material on here that will guide you through learning to forge. And if you work through that then there is even more information about making knives. Have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W. Posted July 29, 2009 Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) Thanks for the info. I think I was letting it get to hot. Today I kept the metal at an orange heat when I worked it and there was no problem. As far as a blade being a hard first project, I realized this before I started. I know I will probably get it wrong the first time but I will give it my best and try to make it work. Also since 1045 doesn't have enough carbon what metal would you recommend I use. Thanks again for the advice. Edited July 29, 2009 by Dave W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 If it looks like a 4th of July sparkler then it is definitely getting too hot, which is what it sounds like anyway. Get yourself some mild steel and start with some simple projects to help you learn about forging and the process involved, but either way be safe and have fun. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I know that this will sound funny but you may be able to learn to forge blades FASTER by forging other things first. Certainly with less frustration. If you are going to go straight to blades well be prepared to waste your weight in "practice" blades. As for easily obtained scrap steels for knifemaking I would suggest you try automobile coil springs. See if you can find someone with O-A to cut down one side of a spring and you will have stock for a dozen plus blades. (You can cut them yourselves with a long hot cut and a hammer but if you are new to the craft you are a lot less likely to burn yourself just working with the rings.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 you put a round rod with a flattened end into the fire and pull out just a round rod (and somewhat shorter than what you started with) then you burned off the flattened end because it got too hot. Continue to do that and the round rod will eventually be totally consumed. Less time in the fire or lower heat with work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 1045 in a blade thickness will heat treat up just fine and make a very serviceable blade. Very good material to start off with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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