mandomaniac Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Hey folks, Figured I'd post this newbie question here as well after I spotted this section. I hope that is not 'politically incorrect' ...since I posted similar question in the general section that got moved to the tool section. After reading most of the topics here, this area really seems to deal best with what's on my mind. I am trying to make my own tools such as fullers, hardies, swages, etc. I have some pieces of 4340 that would do nicely. The question....do these tools need to be heat treated? Seems that tools such as fullers or swages that are in contact with hot steel for significant time would lose temper anyway. So is it necessary? For that matter, could such tools be made from plain vanilla mild steel and hold up? I spotted quite a few serious metal minds in my reading topics here and look forward to any guidance/words of wisdom. I appreciate your help! Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I suppose it depends on the tool, what it's used for, how it's used, and how often it's used. I have some spring fullers and such made from mild steel. If I use them like I have some sense, they work just fine. If I over use them, i.e. too hot and too hard, they will deform. However, like you said, this can be true of any tool, regardless of the steel and heat treatment if they are misused. A carefully hardened and tempered punch will loose it all if you stay in the work too long without cooling it. Same with a hot-cut or anything else. On most common mid- to high-carbon steels, anything in excess of 400-450 is going to seriously effect the temper. Now, some of these guys are into some of the "S" series steels for tooling. It is said to hold up much better in excessive hot work. Somebody else will have to fill you in on that. I guess my final advice would be that if you are a person who id good to his tools, go ahead and follow through with proper heat treating and just remember to keep 'em cool as you use them. However, in a pinch, you can get a lot done with a quickly fabricated mild steel tool. My $.02 Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well there is heat treating and there is heat treating---I wouldn't want to leave pretty much any tool in an annealed condition but a lot of my tooling I use normalized. Tools that get "buried" in hot steel I try to use high alloy steels for that stay hard to high temps.. Even if the tip will get drawn back by hot metal the shaft of some tools profit from being a bit harder and tougher---especially if you use long punches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandomaniac Posted July 28, 2009 Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 Thanks fellas....it seems I am making things too hard (no pun intended) in my usual fashion. I like the KISS approach and will try to just make the tool with what I have and use as is. If it works...I'm spending more time banging on steel than worrying with heat treating. If it fails to hold up, regroup and go for the heat treat method. Any thoughts on the 4340 in this application? I appreciate the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithgartner Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) I had always taken a SOP,(seat of pants) approach to smithing, as it is my hobby, and I made a tool as needed. Anyway old style tire tool/jackhandles, have worked for me as eye punches, chasing tools, etc., they have enough carbon content to harden and temper a bit, and they are fairly durable. Also the 5/8" dia. fits my hand well. For slitters drifts and punches, I use steering components, ( drag links, tie rods ). All that said I'm starting on a set per Brian Brazeal, from a coil spring. Edited August 28, 2009 by keithgartner Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 4340 the simple way for tools that have to hold an edge, heat to dull orange oil quench, then burn the oil off with the forge or gas axe. Use. 4340 the technical way, heat to 830 to 870 degrees C, quench vigourously in oil, temper while still warm to desired hardness (avoid tempering in the range of 210 deg C to 450 deg c as this is in 4340's temper brittleness range, this is one of the reasons that you can not use the temper colour method for everything). Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolmaker Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Hi I am new to this forum, but i will put in my oppinion. I sugest H-13 heat treated and double Tempered it will not heat check and will take a beating. Hope this helps Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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