mandomaniac

Hey folks, Well after being inspired by the different mini presses I have seen...(many thanks to Mr. Kelly and Mr. Toler ) I decided to just grab it and growl. I designed this one to be just a bit bigger and allow interchangeable dies. Used four uprights rather than two. A bit taller as well to accommodate other tooling such as cutters, punches, or drifts between the horizontal members. Just finished it up ...well, actually still need to mount two return springs between base and middle horizontal member. Also need to shape the drawing portion of the dies. No paint yet either, but took some pics and thought I would show this 'midi' version. Felt I should post this to return the favor and maybe help someone else pondering one of these. Hopefully it will do just what I need while I am still in the process of fabricating a power hammer. From the videos I saw of these little presses in action....I feel sure it will do just fine. The various parts/assemblies. Used 2" x 2" x 1/4" wall sq tubing and 1/2" flat plate : The base assembly. (Note little doodads to hold jack in place, the piece to hold handle, and the 2 threaded holes for eyebolts for return springs for middle member.): Base with jack and handle in place: Middle horizontal member (side facing up with threaded holes for lower die): Middle horizontal member (side facing jack. Note threaded holes for eyebolts for 2 return springs.): Top horizontal member (side facing down with threaded holes for upper die): Top horizontal member (side facing up): Uprights with adjustment holes: Die (still being machined)and plates for additional dies (the portion to the right is not yet radiused for drawing out. Will be same height as the flat portion to the left to be able to switch work back and forth . Will have matching upper die.) All together!!

Ken, Having used this a bit now, wonder if you have any thoughts on 'mods'. I thought using 2 uprights on each side would allow for slightly wider area for dies. If you had a heavy (say 1/2" T), wide (4" as opposed to 2") support under the cross bars, that is. In your opinion, would this be overkill for a 20T jack, or maybe the 20 Ton would be inadequate? Thanks for sharing the details of this press. I am hot on the trail of putting something together! Since I am trying to play with pattern laminated forge welding. it should be just the ticket for what I need.

Wow.... This info certainly changes my thinking. I had been planning on simply filling a heavy walled square tube with sand (or maybe wheel weights) for an anvil base. After trying to research PH construction on the net, it seemed this was a fairly common approach to increase either anvil or hammer mass. The tube would be capped by a 3" thick piece of steel and a 1/2" plate to bolt interchangeable dies to. Even then, I don't think I would be anywhere near a 10:1 mass ratio since I was going to have a hammer in the 35-40# range. A 400# anvil base is a chunk! Physics is physics, however. Thanks for pointing this info out. Hmmmmmm..... maybe back to the drawing board! :o

Grant, You have my vote.....it never ceases to amaze me how much fantastic information is out there and readily shared on a mind-numbing number of forums. For maniacs like myself....this is the proverbial candy store. Truth be told, I participate in many ....and widely varied... forums. It's tough being scatterbrained. Too many interests rattling around in there at one time! Hell if I was a kid today, they'd probably have me on meds. Fortunately, I'm old as dirt and back then they thought it was great, stuck me in the library and taught me Greek mythology, calligraphy, astronomy , languages, and other cool stuff. Go figure...... "inquiring minds want to know!" The fellow that was my gun building mentor was fond of saying "Don't see why anyone has to reinvent the wheel" and generously shared his knowledge gained through years of experience (read that trials and ERRORS). Certainly prevented me from having to make the very same errors. So...let me take this opportunity as a newbie to give a serious tip of the hat to the folks here that obviously feel likewise. I thank you for all the knowledge I have gained and will continue to gain in the future. Hopefully I might be able to return the favor in some small way to someone else. ;)

Hey Jeff, Yep, I remember. But still toying with mounting a ball end link such as this only on top of the hammer shaft. It would allow a pivoting movement at that end , while the other end would be solidly fixed under the springs (no pivot). In my feeble engineering mind, this would account quite nicely for the 'fore/aft' movement as the spring end traces its arc. Not seeing the 90 degrees....in my 'design', thrust would be only off hammer shaft axis by a few degrees from vertical as the arc is traced. Nothing in stone yet....and might still end up doing it the 'usual' way. And definitely open to suggestions! :)

Thanks for the wake up! Embarrassingly enough, I farm and should have clicked on this application! Even better....buy a complete top link, cut off one 'ball end' and weld an appropriate length of Schedule 80 black pipe between ball and threaded portion. Instant link with about 8" or more adjustment! Hurts my feelings (and pocketbook) that I just bought RH, LH threaded rod and appropriate nuts to weld up my own adjustable link. DUH!

I have searched the forum for power hammers using Heim type rod ends. Only found a couple of references , both involved tire hammer rather than a "Rusty" type hammer. I am in the process of build such a beast ("Rusty" type) and it just seems a great way to make the connecting links...both on the 'cam pulley side' and on the 'hammer shaft' side. There are 3/4" ends readily available and inexpensive. Anyone have any experience with these? Would they hold up to the pounding? Or should I stick to the 'weld up a clevis and use shaft/bushings' approach. Any thought/experience is appreciated! Thanks :)

Hey Hammbone, I sourced the RH and LH threaded rod and nuts(I used coupling nuts)from MSC. A bit of welding and you can make a turnbuckle with about 12" of adjustment.

Now THAT's impressive fabrication. Very nice set up.I would love to have a bunch of nice steel lying about to cobble up something similar! Bad news is the local scrapyard has ceased selling to individuals! I think I like building tools as much as using them. It seems I'm not the only one Great job....and I thank you for sharing all the pics. Oh....one other question....do the motors turn backward in Oz....or just the drains? Kidding aside, had the good fortune to visit South Australia once.....incredible place. Would love to return! Definitely enjoyed those Barossa vinyards (not to mention the vin! ) :D

Brian: Thanks once again. Actually, that site I had spotted early on in my wanderings. It was indeed quite helpful. I will see if I can manage some pics along the way. Arftist: I was not clear with my rod end concept. I would mount a bar perpendicular to the axis of the springs and offset somewhat from the under face of the spring. The 2 rod ends would be mounted on the upper end of the hammer shaft somewhat like a clevis arrangement with the bar running through them. I thought using the 2 might help stabilize any 'lateral' movement, while the rod ends would allow for the angle changes as the spring moved up and down in an arc. Some of my 'mechanical' concern was whether there was significant 'forward/aft' movement as the spring end moved up and down that required the spring to be able to slide between the two fixed bars. My comment that 'there's a rod end on the pittman arm side of the springs' may not hold water. That end might be able to handle 'forward/aft' movement better since the lower end of pittman is going round and round, not straight up and down like the hammer shaft. I also thought having the concave of the springs down might trace an arc with less fore/aft movement and have better chance of not binding the hammer shaft. Does any of this make sense? My poor old brain is close to melt down.. Might just have to go with the tried and true. Definitely appreciate you folks sharing your thoughts!

Hey Brian, Thanks for the link. Perhaps I misspoke when I used the term helve hammer. (?) I am building a medium sized (about 40-50#) power hammer in the style of Jerry Allen and others. Uses flat springs for the 'helve'. The blueprints are 'similar but different'. However, I did pick up some good ideas for construction and welding techniques, so I do appreciate it!

Hey folks, I'm in the process of building a power hammer (helve type). Been studying those I have spotted on line to develop design that will work for me. A couple of questions... On the linkage between spring and hammer shaft, the ones I have seen seem to allow the spring to slide between two round bars on the end of the shaft. Is this slide method necessary? How much clearance between spring and bars? Why not use 2 rod ends mounted to the hammer shaft, linked to the spring by one bar? This would allow rotation as the hammer shaft moves up and down. Pretty much that is the same type linkage on the other end of the spring. Speaking of spring.....is it a problem to use curved vs straight? I have a set of 69 Camaro springs that I parked the tractor on for days.....still curved.! I have seen a couple examples with curved....just the majority have flat. Safe to assume concave up/concave down should matter little? Any thoughts/advise??? Other than to build a tire hammer....I'm too far into this now! HAHAHAHHA Appreciate the help....

Very helpful drawings. I'll have to explore the FABA link as well. Thanks!

Was very interested in checking this article, but it seems the link does not work for me. Anyone else get it to cooperate?

Thanks Grant, This info is indeed what I needed. I definitely agree.....knowing the 'why' makes the 'what to do' fall into place. Will try to have at it and see if I can make some serviceable tooling. I appreciate everyone's help. Hope I have not worn out my welcome....I feel sure I will have plenty of questions as I stumble my way along.

Hehehehehe......you guys are too much. :cool: I am beginning to find myself sinking as I tried to put my toe in the metallurgical waters. The more I try to investigate, the more confused I get. Started out as a simple "get the right steel, make some tools and dies, and have at it". Not quite that easy! Had planned on welding different dies to flat plates to interchange on a power hammer (yet to be completed I might add) Turns out as I wade through data sheets, the steels that seem like good candidates for dies (like the 4340 I have) are not welding friendly. I have seen pics of power hammers with such dies, so figured it must be possible. At this point, I am left wondering if I should just weld up a few blocks of junkyard steel, forget about this alchemy called heat treating, and just see what comes! Nah.....I'll keep stumbling through a while longer. Might be able to figure something out. I have to say......this forum is a pretty special resource for crazies like me. The depth and breadth of knowledge and the willingness to share can't be beat. Might even poke at Grant! (does he bite?) Thanks again folks for all the help.

Mark, Have you experience with using S7 for tools? Found source for it as well as H13. Pondering what would make good dies (top and bottom) for power hammer that is 'under construction'. I know....I know....I tend to tilt at windmills. What can I say???? ;-)

Wowza...that was REALLY helpful info. I definitely appreciate it! I have some pieces of 4340. The other flavors might be harder to come by, but at least now I know what to be keeping my eye out for. Would the 4340 'work' for the 1045 or 4317? Seems I will bet hot on the trail (pun intended) of forging as opposed to milling. Thanks again!

Thanks fellas....it seems I am making things too hard (no pun intended) in my usual fashion. I like the KISS approach and will try to just make the tool with what I have and use as is. If it works...I'm spending more time banging on steel than worrying with heat treating. If it fails to hold up, regroup and go for the heat treat method. Any thoughts on the 4340 in this application? I appreciate the help.

Hey folks, Figured I'd post this newbie question here as well after I spotted this section. I hope that is not 'politically incorrect' ...since I posted similar question in the general section that got moved to the tool section. After reading most of the topics here, this area really seems to deal best with what's on my mind. I am trying to make my own tools such as fullers, hardies, swages, etc. I have some pieces of 4340 that would do nicely. The question....do these tools need to be heat treated? Seems that tools such as fullers or swages that are in contact with hot steel for significant time would lose temper anyway. So is it necessary? For that matter, could such tools be made from plain vanilla mild steel and hold up? I spotted quite a few serious metal minds in my reading topics here and look forward to any guidance/words of wisdom. I appreciate your help! Thanks!!

Hey folks, Sorry for the pretty basic questions...but still making my way up the learning curve. So please bear with me. Are the swages, fullers, etc made out of tool steel, then hardened and tempered? Or are they just mild steel and don't deform that much when forging hot steel to shape? As I thought about this, it seemed that all the nice hardening and tempering of tool steel would quickly be changed/lost as it red hot steel was being hammered against it for a period of time. I wonder if even treating cut hardies might be wasted. Less contact time, but hot none the less. I have several pieces of 4340 steel I wanted to make myself into various tools.... fullers, hardies, round and square swages, etc. Should I mill and use 'as is' or go through the heat treating process? Or for that matter....just use solid mild steel that I have as well? Here's another question...rather than milling different diameter round (or square) 'grooves' for swages, would simply heating to red hot then pounding a cold bar (round or square) into the block to appropriate depth do just fine? Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!