junker Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So how can I cut a hardie for my anvil? It's just a large chunk of steel and I need a hardie so I can make a mandrel I think it's called, essentially just a cone. Because I obviously don't have similar feature on my anvil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 You will need a HSS Broach bit that does this.. You have to use it in a press or a lathe. It works like a cam motion. It's prolly best to take your anvil to a machinist and have them drill it for you on one of their machines. OR (Simple way) Other things you can do are just get a piece of thick wall sq tubing .25" or 3/16's and weld that to a horizontal piece of plate (something also meaty like 1/2") and then mount that on a stump or something secure. Then you can just mimic the hardy hole with the tubing and have a separate place for using all your hardy tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Buy an impact socket with the same size drive as you want for a hardy hole, (1" probably) and weld it to your anvil or a stand of it's own. It can be really handy to have a roving hardy hole, you can leave it set up so you don't have to drop a tool in and take it out while the iron's hot. You don't have to worry about hitting a sharp hardy with your hand while forging. And so on. Of course one of the cool drill bits has serious appeal to a machinist's son. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 I like Frosty's advice as well. They will probably charge you a pretty good chunk of change to have that milled and if you buy the tool it will also cost you a pretty good chunk of change. You will also decrease what mass you have in your chunk of steel. Sorta a lose/lose proposition unless you just have to have it that way. For myself I use all my forming tools and hardy's on a seperate stand setup and I never have to worry about hammering near a hot cut hardy nor having to remove it in between work. I found a nice stump I liked, used PL Industrial polyurethane adhesive and glued it to two thick boards. Glued all that to 4x4's (lincoln log style). Drilled some holes for a bunch of rebar. Then I sheeted the box and poured crack resistant concrete in. I think I did this all in a day or two. Then I attached some wheels. The thing is very heavy, but I can rock it back on my own onto the wheels so I can place it where I want. Sometimes I like it just behind or to the side of my anvil. Anything I can weld to a pipe or pipe cap I can use. I even found some really thick forged steel nipples (pipe) from mcmaster carr (3/16's I think). Ignore the pipe that is in the picture, normally I only use a little 6" piece because i'm working rather low. A pipe wrench I always keep nearby I can use to tighten or untighten each item very quickly. Most of the time though all you need is hand tight because the threads hold it so well. I've also seen guys make a similar mobile base with a piece of square steel tubing welded to heavy plate to accept their hardys. You can really come up with something great if you put a little time and thought into it. One of the nice things about this setup is I can wheel it outsideor anywhere I want with ease. It makes doing any sheet metal project much easier. Oh I also took a piece of leaf spring and heated it and clamped it around the stump to stop it from splitting and cracking. A few cracks formed over the years, but I just inject them with PL and i'm back up and running. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will. K. Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The tool used to drill square holes is called a watts drill and requires a special chuck that lets the bit "float" around a die shaped like the hole desired until the hole has been chewed out. Similar to the way a two legged parser works. If a through hole would be acceptable, a water jet machine could be used to cut a square hole through the block of steel. A big factor on the cost of this option is how thick the block is. personally I Like the socket idea. I picked up some 3/4" impact sockets from the scrapyard to weld to some thick walled pipe after reading about someone doing it a while back in another thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Nice collection of stakes Avadon. (Is it really a collection if you make them yourself?) Good use of body dollies. It's a nice holding system you have too. It'd be more solid than square sockets and you can adjust the way it's pointing very delicately. Frosty Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt87 Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Weygers discusses the drilling of square holes in The Recycling, Use and Repair of Tools. He describes two methods: using a long drill tempered so it can flex over the length of the shaft or using a short drill with a floating workpiece. Both methods use a very hard steel guide to limit and define the hole to be drilled. He also describes the making of the drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 So how can I cut a hardie for my anvil? It's just a large chunk of steel and I need a hardie so I can make a mandrel I think it's called, essentially just a cone. Because I obviously don't have similar feature on my anvil If its just a large chunk of steel, as you say, just weld thick walled tubing to one end . you can block around it to beef it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 The method that I use to make square holes in railroad anvils is to: 1. Drill out as much as I can with cobalt drills. (I think there is a blue print here on drilling a one inch square hole. 2. Take out as much of the rest with patience and a high speed hand grinder. Depending on depth you could use jig saw blades 3. Use Remmington Grit edge hack or jig saw blades to work out the corners and high spots. (If it is not hardened then after cold chisel with regular hss blades) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Well, if all you want is a cone, then a round hardy hole would work. If you want to make tools for your anvil then use two round holes, forget tradition. Whole different thing if you already have tools that you need to make a hardy hole to fit. On welded tools, don't get hung up on putting the shank under the tool. Just drop a shank in your hardy hole and weld the tool on beside it. Whole lot easier, faster and works fine. I see people welding them on the bottom and they have trouble getting them on straight and then they need to grind the weld because of the sharp corners on the hardy hole. If you're fabbing you don't need to copy a forged tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Well, if all you want is a cone, then a round hardy hole would work. If you want to make tools for your anvil then use two round holes, forget tradition. Whole different thing if you already have tools that you need to make a hardy hole to fit. On welded tools, don't get hung up on putting the shank under the tool. Just drop a shank in your hardy hole and weld the tool on beside it. Whole lot easier, faster and works fine. I see people welding them on the bottom and they have trouble getting them on straight and then they need to grind the weld because of the sharp corners on the hardy hole. If you're fabbing you don't need to copy a forged tool. Can't you just weld the tool ontop of the shank and then, with the tool firmly tapped into place, just weld a shoulder on (a thick disk) the shaft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Avadon: Sure, why not? Depends somewhat on the kind of tool. Some tools you're driving hard down on the shoulder and a weld to high carbon or alloy might not hold up well. But otherwise do what works, not what you think it should look like, unless that's what you want. I like easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avadon Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Do normally they just leave some meat around the base of hardy tool that the heat in the forge and then pound it down into the hardy hole while hot and that forms the shoulder right? At least that is the only thought I have on how they could create that bulge for the shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Browne Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Really like the setup you have Avadon. Just might have to steal a couple of those ideas Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horseshoe182 Posted June 16, 2009 Share Posted June 16, 2009 Mark out square hole, Mark out centre, Drill centre, Mark out corners, Drill out corners with very small drill (3mm) Mark out and drill out excess material, Finish with small handheld linisher or cold chisiel and file finish. Long "series" drills can be used.Industrial Long Series Drills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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