friction folder handles

[new guy]

i am thinking of making myself some friction folders for fun and i would like to know how to make friction folder handles. i think i can hot form sheet metal over a form to make a handle. i dont think that just a cut in a wood handle will hold up well. i think re enforcing the handle with sheet metal will work. i probably just answered my own question but, other people know more that me so i though i would ask anyway. thanks if you post. ;)

[Robert Mayo]

I like to use antler and stabilized wood for friction folders both will hold up well and are fairly easy to work. Depending on the type of wood you choose there are many that will hold up well to every day use such as desert ironwood and lignum vitea both hard dense woods.
Edited to add both are so dense and oily that they do not float.
Bob

Edited May 12, 2009 by Robert Mayo

[new guy]

ok. i really do not have any money to buy stuff. i know i guy who may want to get rid of some antlers. i really only have acces to oak and softwoods. i think that the sheet metal is the most pheasable. although Mr. Mayo, you did give me an idea: reenforce a peice of wood with sheet metal! real 'iron wood'. i know of muscle wood trees in the area (the new england name of iron wood). thanks for the post. and i am really impressed with your friction folders. i actually decided to make one after seing your folders. thank you again.

[Charlotte]

Dry oak will make a good handle for every day use if you soak it up with slow setting epoxy.

In times past I've make handles for cookware by putting the wood in mineral oil and heating it gently to the point at which the wood starts to turn brown and then letting it cool. Heating drives out air and water and the oil soaks in.

Afterward I would just wipe off and wash with detergent. (All this After final shaping)

Many of the handles of folders I see use Corian scrap. ( Stuff from making kitchen counters. A kind of mineral filled plastic)

[new guy]

thanks charlotte. those all sound like great ideas. although define slow settin epoxy. i have heard people call 1hr slow setting so i just want to know what you mean by that. also do you think i could use olive oil in stead of mineral oil?i can get olive oil by the gallon at costco.thanks for the ideas and post.

[Steve Sells]

If you search the posts in the knife section, there is a thread about veggie based oils going rancid, from natural decomposition.

[Charlotte]

An hour to set is slow setting epoxy.

Well the first time I oiled made handles I used Solid white shortening.

Actually for a pocket knife you could use boiled linseed oil. But be sure to dispose of the oil afterward.

You could use olive oil. The reason for food grade oil was only food contact.

Mineral oil is available at the drug store in bottles costing a buck or so. Much less than olive oil. Agin a suggestion just based on common house hold items.

Boiled linseed oil is relatively cheaper than olive oil and usully sold in pint or quart cans at hardware store. Using linseed oil would be better than the other oils.

[new guy]

ok i have to agree about the rancid part that is annoying. but i will be using this knife as my primary boy scout knife (i am a boy scout and 15). the linseed is not good for food. and who said it was virgin oiliv oil? i would buy the cheap stuff that is just olive oil. although mineral oil would be great. the cvs in my area only sells the super scented stuff and i don't want to have a knife that smells better than i do! but i used cooking oil and it stopped smelling after a week or two. so slow setting epoxy it is. maybe even bacon grease after my mom cooks (or i do) breakfast. Charlotte: by solid white shortening do you mean crisco or shortening? i have heard of shotening just not solid white shortening. just asking. thanks again for the posts.

[Charlotte]

If you search the posts in the knife section, there is a thread about veggie based oils going rancid, from natural decomposition.

Steve, in this application the oil doesn't go rancid. I've used it on food grade handles for many years. What actully happens is that it will polymerize like linseed oil only at a slower rate.

Linseed oil is my personal first choice for no-food grade applications.

Tung oil is even better but sort of expensive and difficult find when you use once and throw away.

These oils cross link and make varnish in more or less time.
I have avoided playing with the dryers, like japan drier, because they can cause toxic or allergic reaction.

[Charlotte]

ok i have to agree about the rancid part that is annoying. but i will be using this knife as my primary boy scout knife (i am a boy scout and 15). the linseed is not good for food. and who said it was virgin oiliv oil? i would buy the cheap stuff that is just olive oil. although mineral oil would be great. the cvs in my area only sells the super scented stuff and i don't want to have a knife that smells better than i do! but i used cooking oil and it stopped smelling after a week or two. so slow setting epoxy it is. maybe even bacon grease after my mom cooks (or i do) breakfast. Charlotte: by solid white shortening do you mean crisco or shortening? i have heard of shotening just not solid white shortening. just asking. thanks again for the posts.

Yes crisco or similar, is what I used. The mineral oil I'm talking about is in the laxitive sections and marked U.S.P. People drink it. Usuall costs about 2 buck. The left over can be used as a quench medium.

[matt87]

What's wrong with raw linseed oil for food applications? It's quite commonly used on wooden worktops, carved spoons, bowls, cups etc. It'll dry if you leave it long enough. All my hammer handles are treated with several coats of it, as are several other wooden objects inside and outside the home, and I have made canvas oilcloth with it on many occasions. So-called 'boiled' linseed oil should of course be steered well clear of; it tends to contain heavy-metal dryers these days and polymerises a lot faster so is more likely to be a fire risk. If you're really worried get some 'flax-seed oil' from the supermarket or healthfood shop; it's exactly the same stuff but guaranteed to be food-grade. Heck linseed is a food; it's the seed of the linen (flax) plant. In general I much prefer a linseed finish to a varnish (especially a modern nitro varnish); it nourishes the wood, it allows the wood to 'breathe', it can be reapplied easily, it gives a much better tactility and looks so much better. Besides which it's 'natural' and has been used for millenia.

[new guy]

ok thank you. i think i like the idea of crisco better beacause my mom or gandma will probably use the mineral oil to preserve the wood on their (kitchen) knives. I just read up the on the forums and came to this concluision: heat the crisco and soak the wood in it for an hour or so. then have your metal at 150 degrees farenheit and rub you preservation solution on the blade. that sound righ to you guys (and girl)? thanks again for the post.

[Charlotte]

Works for me.

[Charlotte]

What's wrong with raw linseed oil for food applications? It's quite commonly used on wooden worktops, carved spoons, bowls, cups etc. It'll dry if you leave it long enough. All my hammer handles are treated with several coats of it, as are several other wooden objects inside and outside the home, and I have made canvas oilcloth with it on many occasions. So-called 'boiled' linseed oil should of course be steered well clear of; it tends to contain heavy-metal dryers these days and polymerises a lot faster so is more likely to be a fire risk. If you're really worried get some 'flax-seed oil' from the supermarket or healthfood shop; it's exactly the same stuff but guaranteed to be food-grade. Heck linseed is a food; it's the seed of the linen (flax) plant. In general I much prefer a linseed finish to a varnish (especially a modern nitro varnish); it nourishes the wood, it allows the wood to 'breathe', it can be reapplied easily, it gives a much better tactility and looks so much better. Besides which it's 'natural' and has been used for millenia.

If you can find flax seed oil on it that says USP on it then by all means use it.
We are not discussing what the theory is but what is practical and available.
For me I think about potential liability of food grade items the same way I think about lighting fixtures. I use bee's wax and grapeseed oil on forge products that may wind up in someone's kitchen, and I don't make lighting items to be rewired for electricity.

I happen to like raw linseed oil and have used it many times on many different occasions. Boiled linseed oil does not necessairly have heavy metal dryers in it. Boiled linseed oil is simply that in most brands. The process starts the first phase of cross linking. In this case heating the wood in the oil would achieve much the same result. How ever you don't know the source or the processing of the oil and so may be exposing your self to a number of toxins.

The one thing I know about "flax seed oil" is that it is processed differently from linseed oil and that it is not as stable as other vegatable oils.

[new guy]

matt87 i am taking into account a $5 budget and what i can improvise or make. i don't have acces to raw linseed oil and i may or may not have some mineral oil in my basement. i will not put myself at any risk of poisoning. i know if i have hurt myslef forging. but posoning is not obvious.

[matt87]

I avoid buying bottles of 'boiled' inseed oil as it has a reasonable probablility of containing heavy metal dryers; yes it may actually be just boiled linseed oil but I like to err on the side of caution with such things.

What does USP stand for in this context? I tried an acronym dictionary but nothing was appropriate.

Apologies if linseed oil is difficult to find or expensive over there, I can pick up a 250ml bottle of raw or 'boiled' for a couple of

[new guy]

ok that all may be true in the UK. but where i am smack in the center of yuppie-ville it is hard to find linseed or flaxseed oil. i know where i can get peanut oil for cheap. also i will use this knife for food. if i give people knives as presents they may not listen to me if i tell them there is poisonous oil on them. better to be on the super side of saftey then take any risks at all. $5 is about 2 pounds or euros to the best i know. so i am doing this on the cheap! whatever i buy will have to be usable as a qeunchant. just so ye know! thanks fot the posts.

[Steve Sells]

a very high percentage of the population has allergies to peanuts, not a good choice. Try making one good project, so you can sell it and buy s few simple items.

we can make blades on the cheap, but there are limits.

[Finnr]

Regular kitchen type oils will in time become rancid. A rancid knife STINKS! Once dry (about 30 days ) ANY commonly available finish is inert. I use a lot of boiled linseed oil straight from the hardware store.
Finnr

[wolfshieldrx]

usp = united states pharmcopeia

[wolfshieldrx]

Here's a link on finishing wood as it relates to food-safe finishes. Basically says all are safe once cured. Of course this article relates to varnishes, etc. However, says all modern dryers are safe.
Popular Woodworking - Flexner on Finishing

I've also used walnut oil...found it with the cooking oils at the local Kroger. Supposedly it will not go rancid. bart

Edited May 14, 2009 by wolfshieldrx

[Charlotte]

Regular kitchen type oils will in time become rancid. A rancid knife STINKS! Once dry (about 30 days ) ANY commonly available finish is inert. I use a lot of boiled linseed oil straight from the hardware store.
Finnr

Let me make this a litte clearer. Veggie oils will become rancid,yes.

Will the oil absorbed into the wood after prolonged heating near the smoke point then cooled and washed smell or become rancid NO!
Does it harden to a varnish finish? yes over time.

I said at the out set dispose of the oil after use.
Linseed oil is not food safe! It is not food safe because of the way it is processed. Think about the uproar that was caused by a few stray fungi in some peanuts a few years ago and then think about the equipment and storage facilies that are rarely cleaned in processing Raw or boiled linseed oil.

Flaxseed oil sold as a food is safe because of the differences in processing.

Heating oil to the point that the oak in the oil darkens produces the same effect as boiling it. That is, it advances the cross linking of the molecules.

[Charlotte]

Here's a link on finishing wood as it relates to food-safe finishes. Basically says all are safe once cured. Of course this article relates to varnishes, etc. However, says all modern dryers are safe.
Popular Woodworking - Flexner on Finishing

I've also used walnut oil...found it with the cooking oils at the local Kroger. Supposedly it will not go rancid. bart

I guess I'm a little bit of a crank about this because I fought tooth and nail through a New drug application manufacturing set up where I used to work.

Your are liable for blame if you offer something for food service use that is finished with something the FDA has not cleared. If it comes from the hardware store you have no defense. If it comes of the grocers shelf and is offered as a food item then you can pled ignorance.

Walnut oil was also used as a drying oil by painters in the 19th century and may still be used today.

As a practical matter used in this application. Boiled linseed oil or tung oil would be ok.

I'm suprised that no one commented on the obvious danger of heating any of these oils near the smoke point.

[Finnr]

The debate over food safe finishes has raged for years. An article in a major woodworking magazine some time back looked into the situation. The verdict was that ALL modern finishes are safe after fully curing. Most are not rated foodsafe though due to the cost of testing to get that designation.

Finnr

[new guy]

ok yeah finnr i did not know that thank you. And mr. sells i often mix up terms i mean cooking oil like soybean or somthing. thanks for the posts. also i have someone who wants to buy a couple of little do dads from me so that may finiance my hobby. thanks for the posts.