jimmy seale Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 well do ol boys, suck it up and still anwser stupid questions, be well all that ask, jimmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 17, 2009 Share Posted May 17, 2009 Please don't ruin an anvil. What you propose has so many things wrong with it I don't know where to start. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihonius Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 It's only a chunk of railroad, so if I mess it up I'm out of $4 and the time to wait for it. What I'm wanting to do is heat treat it. It's talked about in my book by Jim Hrisoulas. So tempering it isnt bogus if thats what your all saying, unless he is bogus. Sorry for bugging you all with my stupid questions. I'll just wing it from now on then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old South Creations Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Tempering, etc isn't necessary. You can use it just fine as is. Do a search on here for RR anvils and you can find a fair amount of info. A hardy hole, etc isn't mandatory either. If you have a vise it can hold any cut off's, etc that you need to use until you can get a "real anvil". Many people get started on RR anvils. You'll find that when you actually get started smithing, a lot of the answers to your questions will make more sense. It takes time and patience and practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finnr Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 If you want directions on hardening and tempering a RR anvil Alexander Weyger's book The Complete Modern Blacksmith covers it very well. The one I had I just arc welded a chunk of Semi leaf spring on the top and the young man i gave it to a couple years back is still making use of it. Finnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihonius Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Sadly I dont have a torch of any kind to use for heat treating or anything. So an un-tempered anvil wont get chewed up over time with the hammer blows? I'm not sure why my book says to temper it. Isnt the hammer supposed to bounce in some way when you hit the metal? I dont know if maybe thats the reason. My book just says heat the anvil upside down with the face burried in coals until it is cherry red, then quench it. Then place it right side up in the coals to a light straw color before quenching again. Then you anneal the horn with a blowtorch to blue color. then you quench it again. The hole drinlling I was talking about was so that I can screw the anvil onto a stump so that it is to a proper height. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Sounds like you are reading Weyger's book. Good instruction but not necessay unless it has been annealed for some reason. I have two rail anvils. One hard faced in part to repair some bigtime wear, and the other just cut out of the rail. On neither anvil is there any mark for my hammers. I've had one rail anvil for 25 years and the other for around 12. I used to the rail anvil to group demos and work it to get attention. Just heat some steel and start pounding and don't worry about it. PS Anchoring the anvil down strongly to a heavy support is more important than any thing else. Strong, solid anchoring is more important in light anvils than is heavier anvils. Edited May 21, 2009 by Charlotte add PS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihonius Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Actually I'm reading "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas. If everyone thinks that heat treating the anvil is not necessary, then I'm glad I have less work to do. So do you think a fairly wide tree stump is good enough as a base for the anvil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) all I heard was what you posted about tempering the anvil. re tempering an anvil is not usually needed, unless it got over heated somehow, then it would need a full heat treat. Also tempering is only one part of the heat treat process. Dr Jim knows a few things, but at the same time if it works as it is, why mess with it... and if you think heating an anvil is hard, try getting it quenched fast enough to harden in the first place. Edited May 21, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) Actually, Since tree stumps of the right length and diameter are rarely around when you need them, try bolting together some 4x4's together say in a 3x3 configuration and then drilling them and lag Bolting the anvil to the top. Some one posted a picture here that had an example of such a anvil setup in the back ground but I don't remember which thread. Home depot or Lowe's pine will do although I've seen a couple of "Anvil Stumps" Jigsawed together out of Oak pallets that were primo. Oak or other hard wood pallets are not as available as they once were. People seem to want them back. Not like the good old days when imported motor cycles were crated with teak and ligninvitie. :) Edited May 21, 2009 by Charlotte spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 He's talking about a RR rail anvil Steve. Weygers was often traveling in the 3rd. world and a piece of rail he might find would be an unknown so he'd test and heat treat after shaping. I don't know why Dr. Hrisoulas is heat treating rail for anvils. Why don't you ask him? There are threads about anvil stands here and there are lots of really good solid ones to copy. A big wood block isn't the only way to go. Attaching a rail anvil to a wood block is as easy as drilling 2 pilot holes next to the flange on each side and putting thick washers on lag screws, running them into the holes and tightening them down good. Done deal. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihonius Posted May 23, 2009 Author Share Posted May 23, 2009 I'll look around for some stand ideas sometime then, though I think I am going to go help a friend cut down some trees soon anyways. I'm sure I'll find something. I can't believe I'm still waiting on my anvil to get done. First it was going to take maybe 2 days, then a week, and now I'm guessing if I ask again, they'll say a month... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Get done? You're having an anvil made? Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 This is my light anvil stand for doing demos and going to club meetings. It is made from a few 2x8's and some 3/8" plywood. I put two sheets of plywood on top to support the anvil. It is hollow and very light but it supports the anvil just fine. I used a couple of half-moon cutouts to hold the anvil in place; no chains or bolts. Anvil is a 100# TFS Blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihonius Posted May 28, 2009 Author Share Posted May 28, 2009 No I'm not having an actual anvil made, I was going to have a guy take a chunk of railroad rail and cut it to anvil shape. He never got to cutting it, so I just accepted the piece of rail. I think its cool because the rail has the year it was made stamped into it, 1939. He also gave me a fairly large and very thick piece of copper plate to set on the anvil when cutting metal. With the high price of copper right now, getting that and the anvil for only $6.00 was a really big discount from normal. For cutting hot metal does a regular cold chisel work okay? Thanks for the picture of the stand Quenchcrack, I'll have to either get working on a stand or still wait for a stump. I'm sure the stand is probably alot lighter so I'll probably go with that now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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