Nihonius

No I'm not having an actual anvil made, I was going to have a guy take a chunk of railroad rail and cut it to anvil shape. He never got to cutting it, so I just accepted the piece of rail. I think its cool because the rail has the year it was made stamped into it, 1939. He also gave me a fairly large and very thick piece of copper plate to set on the anvil when cutting metal. With the high price of copper right now, getting that and the anvil for only $6.00 was a really big discount from normal. For cutting hot metal does a regular cold chisel work okay? Thanks for the picture of the stand Quenchcrack, I'll have to either get working on a stand or still wait for a stump. I'm sure the stand is probably alot lighter so I'll probably go with that now.

All I really want to make are knives, and I know they wont likely be anything great at first. I've never seen a part like that around here. I might try to take pics of the stuff i find to show you.

I'll look around for some stand ideas sometime then, though I think I am going to go help a friend cut down some trees soon anyways. I'm sure I'll find something. I can't believe I'm still waiting on my anvil to get done. First it was going to take maybe 2 days, then a week, and now I'm guessing if I ask again, they'll say a month...

Actually I'm reading "The Complete Bladesmith" by Jim Hrisoulas. If everyone thinks that heat treating the anvil is not necessary, then I'm glad I have less work to do. So do you think a fairly wide tree stump is good enough as a base for the anvil?

I'm not sure what the clips on a railroad look like. All Are they the square flat pieces of metal with ridges and like two holes in them? I can find some of them once in a while. Mostly I find spikes and some weird pieces of metal that are fairly heavy, and are in a slightly hooked or "J" shape. Google was no help in showing me individual rail parts and their names. Yesterday I did get to go out to the dump and scrounge the metal pile for some stuff. I think I found my forge and a quench tank. The forge part is an oil barrel someone turned into a cheap fireplace. Its on its side with legs to raise it from the ground, and a door to open and close. All I have to do is fix the door, cut the top off and coat the inside with a wet mix of sand, cat litter, and ashes. Before that I guess I also need to cut some holes to add the tuyere pipe. I think I will use a camping air pump for the blower. Hopefully it doesnt melt, being plastic. My quench tank is just an oil barrel I need to clean out. I have no idea where you find cheap mineral oil for it...

Sadly I dont have a torch of any kind to use for heat treating or anything. So an un-tempered anvil wont get chewed up over time with the hammer blows? I'm not sure why my book says to temper it. Isnt the hammer supposed to bounce in some way when you hit the metal? I dont know if maybe thats the reason. My book just says heat the anvil upside down with the face burried in coals until it is cherry red, then quench it. Then place it right side up in the coals to a light straw color before quenching again. Then you anneal the horn with a blowtorch to blue color. then you quench it again. The hole drinlling I was talking about was so that I can screw the anvil onto a stump so that it is to a proper height.

It's only a chunk of railroad, so if I mess it up I'm out of $4 and the time to wait for it. What I'm wanting to do is heat treat it. It's talked about in my book by Jim Hrisoulas. So tempering it isnt bogus if thats what your all saying, unless he is bogus. Sorry for bugging you all with my stupid questions. I'll just wing it from now on then.

On anvilfire.com there are alot of tutorials on making various knives, axes, and tomahawks out of the spikes. I cant imagine the spikes are completely useless for blades, though I'm sure they probably arent the best. I'll try it out when I can and see. I need to find a way to get/make a blower. I've looked for bellows instructions, but they werent so good.

So dont wear gloves at all? It's really that cool to touch? Wow. Shouldnt someting like a sword be heated evenly down the entire length when working it? If you only heated the tip for instance, isnt the metal in that spot now going to have properties different than the rest? Then if you cool the piece and reheat it later, everything is way different. I would think for a piece so dependant on the state of it's entirety, you would have to heat the entire piece evenly. Thats just a theory, I have no idea really. I cant just go find out on my own yet because I dont have an anvil or forge yet. I may get the anvil on monday, but still need to temper it and maybe drill hardy holes and such in it.

Really? OMG that scares me now. Back in 8th grade in art class we had to carve something in wood, then coat it with linseed oil. The teacher never said anything was wrong with it, so I got the stuff all over my hands. Then again, this guy had us melting lead for casting without breathing protection too. Is the oil toxic through the skin?

I think a video would work great at showing how do things before I ever even fire up a forge, so I'll have to check that out. I've also seen stuff from the Poor Boy blacksmith, sadly i'm the "dirt poor in an alley" boy. Lol. I'll take a look on there again, but I still thought it was pricey. @Charlotte, thank for clearing that up with me. If I'm working a long piece, I can wear gloves and hold it by hand.

Those snakes are pretty cool, you must have really drawn the metal out to get that long of a thin wire out of it. As for getting spikes, thanks for all the advice guys. The lucky thing for me is that I live in a really small town where the chances of me even being seen on the tracks in some areas are slim to none. But I'll be cautious and nice to anyone who talks to me. I've never seen anyone pick up the spikes with a magnet around here before, they just get thrown to the side and sit there until the end of time. As for making a knife from these, some people say they get decent ones from HC spikes tempered in water or super quench. I'd think a serrated edge blade would probably really be able to cut through meat at least.

Isnt the top layer of coals supposed to add carbon instead of taking it away though? Bottom layer oxidizes, mid layer is just right/neutral, and top is full of carbon because the oxygen from the bottom has been used by the fire. Oh ya, are you supposed to hold onto your metal work with your hands in the area not being worked? I've seen pictures of people doing it, but I would think the immense heat would travel up the metal and be hot enough to burn. I always thought your tongs just had to be good enough to grip the piece well. If this is so, I guess you can just stick the tip of your work only slightly into the coals? I'm just trying to eat up as much info as I can before I accidentaly kill myself out of stupidity :)

Once you have them, do you know if the sale of things like railroad knives is illegal? I have a friend who's dad works for the railroad, maybe I can ask his dad if there is someway they would let me go about it legally. I'd think its worth a try. If the railroad okays it, and I get picked up, they would hopefully clear my name and such.

So everyone else going out to get them is getting some kind of permit to do that?

If it only carburizes the outer layer, couldnt you fold the steel a bunch of times to work it in (thats just a theory, I really have no idea lol).

Even though its basically garbage to them that they will just let sit there till it rusts to dust? I talked to a guy who used to work for the railroad here, and he said they wouldnt care. But its still a worry for sure. As long as I'm not by a train depot, I doubt they would care, but I dont know. I'm helping recycle, and thats a good thing.

Hey thanks for the replies everyone, and for that list of metals Glenn. I guess I might as well ask here one more thing about rail road steels. I often find square pieces of steel along the tracks that have usually two ridges in them and a few square holes drilled into them. If anyone knows what this part is called, and if it has a higher carbon content, I'd be glad to know. The only parts I can identify are the rails and the spikes.

Hi all, I picked up two railroad spikes about a week ago and just checked the heads on them now for a stamp. I was happy that one had a vertical "HC" stamp on it. The other one however, was surprisingly odd. This is about what it looked like: V8 18 Does anyone have any idea what that means? Are most spikes kept kept standard as either HC or bare, or are odd ones like this common? Any ideas as to its carbon content? I'll have to check my other railroad spikes at home, I never knew to look at the heads of them (or cared to) until recently. Thanks for any help -Nihonius

Hey hide glue sounds like a pretty good idea, and it sounds easy too! I buy my dog rawhide all the time already, so that shouldnt be a problem at all. Thanks for the suggestions!

Hi, I've been wondering if epoxy to hold the tang to the handle of sword/knife is always necessary. When in comes to a gladius, on Romanarmytalk.com nobody has ever mentioned the need for, or use of an epoxy to make a gladius (at least that I've ever seen). All I hear is to slide on the guard, handle, pommel, then peen the end down. I may have to ask them about that, but I always assumed that if everything was put on snug, it would all just fit fine. One other thing. For my knives I would prefer not to use any artificial substances to make them. So for a wood handle, do you just soak the block, carve it, then burn it on? Is that enough? Would power tools like a dremel be able to work on this oil or would it start a fire? Can you still burn the tang through with oil in the wood, or should that be done before soaking? Thanks, -Nihonius

Cant carbon be added to the steel by working with it in the top layer of coals somehow? (my book hasnt gone into detail on this, at least not yet). One other thing my book hasnt gone into is what kind of oil the blade must be quenched in, all it's ever said is "oil". Canola oil, olive oil, mineral oil, whale oil, motor oil, sesame oil, peanut oil, there are so many kinds lol :)

Ya that's very helpful, thank you! I dont think the spikes I have found have any stamp at all on them. So are they like mild steel I suppose? I guess the steel Roman used for their gladii swords was roughly equivalent to modern mild steel. So if it worked for them, I'm sure it would be at least a good cheap practice steel. I need to study steel types more though, but I think mild steel must be pretty low carbon. I was lucky enough to get a piece of railroad track yesterday from a steel recycling center, and they offered to cut it to anvil shape for free since I dont have a torch of my own. I just hope it wont be too much of a problem for the horn to not be totally rounded. I'll still have to try figuring out how to heat treat it. Heck, i need to find some good step by step instructions for a blower or bellows soon. I've found some stuff on here, but they werent very detailed. I'll have to keep looking. Thanks for the help, -Nihonius

Ya I'm trying to get going on starting this, but am still collecting parts for a forge and need an avil of some kind still. I'm planning on putting an ad in the paper to see if someone will sell me an anvil. I thought I might get one from my friend, but I guess its a really old family heirloom. For tongs all I have is a cheap pair of barbecue tongs, which are not safe I'm sure for holding hot metal. I'm going to make my first forge with the method of putting a pipe across a metal tank and filing the tank with clay/adobe. I'm either going to use a big long steel feed bucket (i have no idea what its called, used to winter fish in it) or find an old steel garbage can at the dump and cut it in half length wise. I'll probably also make a smaller forge to work easier with knives and things smaller than a sword. If I had a long forge, but only wanted to do a small object in it, could I just make a pile of charcoal on one end of the forge to save fuel? Do I need to plug the holes in the pipe (tuyere?) that are exposed to the air? If you are working on a project but need to stop mid way through, do you just slow cool the metal in a pile of sand? (anneal?) One last thing for now, does anyone know what type of steel railroad spikes tend to be made of? I have access to a near infinite supply. Do you need to clean off the rust and grime before using it, or does that just burn off? Thanks all, -Nihonius

Thanks for the tips everyone, I'll be looking around for tongs and such at garage sales and auctions alot probably this summer. I may be able to get an anvil from my friend (not sure). So far, though of course I havent tried it yet, knife making seems pretty straighforward. I'm really eating up all the info I can get on it. I may be wrong, but I'll try a few simple knives out and see. Tongs are probably my biggest problem right now, since even if I saw a pair, I wouldnt know what type they are. I'll have to check out goole images and hope for a reliable picture, unless there are some on here. If I cant find a straight peen hammer I may have to grind a ball peen into one like Frosty said, and hope I do it right. Its strange that I can find alot of cross peen hammers, but barely any straight peens, and none of them good. Thanks for the tips though, and I'll look into that book Thomas. I did have Alex Bealer's book "The Art of Blacksmithing", sadly I cant find anything more than the book jacket, and never got more than 1/4-1/2 of the book done with. I cant wait to get started on this! -Nihonius