new guy Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 i am going to start making some tools (mostly edged tools ie knives). i am a beginer smith and i want to dicide between w-1 and o-1 for some blades. i think that w-1 has a wider temp range for foring but i am not sure. also i will have to get oil if i use o-1 so i am trying to decide. if anyone has any comments please feel free to comment. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 New Guy, I would start with W1 because in thin sections it has adequate hardenability and enough carbon to get plenty hard. It will hold a good edge, too. Because it is a simple high carbon tool steel, you can quench it it water. Be careful though because a thin blade can crack in water if it cools too fast. If you crack W1 in water, try using oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 ok looks like w1 it is. is w1 easier to forge? and i don't think il make thin blades. the bulk of my knives are for gp work so i like heavy thick blades. plus i try to only harden the edge. can i get a temper line on w1 ( i dont know what the real name is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Martin Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 W1 all the way. Speedy Metals Online Industrial Metal Supply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 looks great! i found a truck reapair shop today walking home from school, i got a 115lb fisher norris for $150. it is in great condition and is amazing. and i got 50lbs worth of leaf springs that are almost surley 5160. i may just put off buying tool steels but thanks for the posts and when i run out i guess it is w1 for me. i think free steel is better than cheap steel. thank god for nice old smiths that have several ton stockpiles of steel! i could probably even find a blower at said repair shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 can i use an axle for a hammer or tamahawk? it is 3 or 4 in diamater and it is a snapped axle. maybe i need to stress relive (i did that already today). thanks for the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 IIRC the large diameter axles tend to be case hardened while the smaller ones are the same steel all the way through. The cut off was somewhere between 1&2" but I don't recall exactly which. Have to ask across the street where one fellow used to work in an axle making shop. (unfortunately I'm leaving for a 3 day smithing demo today and won't be able to follow up till Monday) The smaller axles make good hammers. I prefer a bit more carbon for hawks/axes/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 ok good to know. but i have awful spacial perception so i will measure it today. thanks for the info. wheather it is good for a hammer or not it will be good for practice. and if it is soft i can avoid marring my new (to me) anvil until i am better. thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Congratulations new guy, Fisher Norris are fine anvils. Even higher kudos are in order for making a good contact at the truck shop. THAT will be valuable for many years to come. Make him something nice. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted April 30, 2009 Author Share Posted April 30, 2009 thank you frosty. i think he may like a knife but i am not sure. next time i walk by ill ask. or he may want something else out side of my skill set. since i am too young to work there (15 i need to be 18 to work where dangeous things are) i can probably send him business. thanks to all who posted. fishers are the best things ever (from my experience. i have only used rr track and a hay budden at a reanactment in mystic seaport, ct.). does a small gp folding knife sound like a good deal to give him? i may copy the little ugly damascus folder i have seen under the folding knives forum (just minus the damascus part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Make him a nice wall hook or better yet a set, make him a paper weight, make him a candle holder, something, anything. However, it would be the height of irresponsibility to make anyone else a knife with you're present lack of skills. I'm not taking a shot at you but you just do not know what you're doing and making a knife carries serious responsibilities. A failed blade can cause serious injury and being the maker YOU are on the hook legally in addition to the moral and ethical responsibility of it. Please, for once take some good advice and make the gentleman something else. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) ok frosty good point I geuss i did not think of that. thank you. he may like a couple of heavy duty wall hooks for his shop. and maybe i could make him some paperweights (i don't know if he'll use them.). frosty it seems that the most fun things to make are the most dangerous. especially hammers and other heavy tools. although some business sent his way i think would be well apreciated. a knife snapping on him would be pretty bad or shattering would be worse, he has a cat and an innocent animal being hurt would be awful. Edited May 1, 2009 by new guy forgot some stuff and spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Than YOU new guy. He'll appreciate anything you make for him. Maybe some shelf brackets, they're useful and usually pretty visible. That way he gets a useful token of appreciation and your work gets shown off. Don't worry, keep practicing and sooner than you think you'll be making your blades. It's all just knowledge and practice but it has to be good knowledge and good practice. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 although frosty i have made a knife for me and my dad, one of which is my avitar, it is ugly but it is sharp. i think shlef brackets will be useful, but i am not really sure what they are or how to make them. do they hold up shelves? probable an obvious guess. although i really smith for fun and not to be a show off. i have pride in the attempt not always the product. thanks for the posts and the free advice (better than steel, its easily reused, no melting required) :0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) Shelf brackets hold up shelves. In their simplest from they're flat strip stock bent flat to 90* with a couple holes in each leg to run screws through. A hip to reinforce it is really only necessary for a shelf more than 8" but looks nice and can be as simple as a "C" or "S" scroll and attached with rivets or collars. The bracket ends should get some finial treatment, it doesn't need to be fancy but it should match or compliment the brace if you include one. While shelf brackets are not very fancy and don't seem to have a lot of forging they are excellent practice because you have to make two just the same and that can be a real challenge. Frosty Edited May 2, 2009 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 great a challenge! i can make those (i think at least i can try). that will be good practice for when i make tongs an my first hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 frosty your going to hate me. today (actually before my last post) i began to make a santoku for my mom (it is almost mothers day after all). i have the tang half done (it needs to be drawn out fully). you were right about a lack of skill and not knowing what i am doing. i forged tired and i smashed my hand enough to put me out of action for the next 4 or 5 days. i have a line iin my index finger in the shape of a knife tang. Lesson: listen to better smiths and do NOT forge tired. i am lucky i am not burned at all. thank god for fast reflexexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 you also ignored the fact of a failure of the blade while in use could hurt your client, or mother in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 2, 2009 Author Share Posted May 2, 2009 (edited) No, i did not i forgot i read that post. and my mom asked for a cleaver and being afraid to say no i started working a learned a very important lesson. 1. don't work tired 2. listen to better smiths 3. remember better smith's advice. sorry to sound like a bother. Edited May 2, 2009 by new guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 as a second thought, this is not meant to be disrespectful in any way (although it can be said as that), Frosty and Mr. Sells neither of you know my ability level. i am really new but i have done this 3 or 4 times a week for 4 months now i think i can do this. the knife that is my avitar is my primary general purpose knife and it has held up quite well. i think that if i have a blade that puts up with my heavy use i can make a cleaver. i admit i am not even close to your skill level and you obviously know your way around a blacksmith shop better than me. this is just me being defensive. and i would not risk making anything if i did not think it would hold up to normal use. if i am wrong i hope nobody gets hurt. i doubt though that my mom has the strenght to break a 1/4 inch thick blade. i would not make this for anyone if i did not think i was ready. i do not intend to offend anyone by this post. this is just my opinoion. i do belive that both of you guys are right but i think i am ready for basic bladesmithing. noted i dounbt this cleaver will ever see heavy use or be subjected to twisting. please don't take this as an insult this is just my opinion on my ability level. if my blade fails it will be my fault unless the blade is subjected to undue abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I have only been smithing 20- years or so, blades for about 15, I broke a 0-1 blade 2 days ago, the tang was 3/16 thick where it broke. And it was normalized still. I can only assume it got a crack from me hitting it when it was to cold, it happens at times, most likely from me not paying attention to the heat color and thinking I can get one more hit in before returning to the fire. But I am sure that in 4 months you know that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Just reading your posts tells us all we need to know about your skills level. If you tell your mom you're skills aren't up to making a knife yet she will not only believe you, she may respect you more. I know I would. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) touche. but it is really just to exist not to be used. and touche frosty. in brad daylight i always have color in what i work for working faster and so i know i won't crack anything. honestly i agree that i would not make something for hevy use, there needs to be more practice. but i can make a wallhanger, which is what this cleaver will be, i don't think i said that and it was my intention all along. that i don't think failure is an issue. i do not intend to be really disrespectul, but this thread was me saying 'hmm i want to make some knives for fun what steel do i use? i like the sounds of o-1 but i like the water hardening of w-1. which is better.' i know i sund inexperinced (i am). but i have to start somewhere. and i have made enough j hooks and letter openers to make my head explode. i have to be honest i stareted knives beacause i was just bored of j hooks Edited May 3, 2009 by new guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) If you want to bang away and make a blade, Fine, then forget the O-1 for a while. Use W or 10xx series or 5160. These are forgiving steels, and make good blades, even if you get outside the safe forging range of temperatures. IF your long term plans are to be using O-1, it makes a fine blade. I would suggest, that while you are working the 10 series, work in ONLY the temp ranges allowed for the O series. This will get you used to that color temp, even tho 10 and W can be worked outside this range, it is to get YOU use to that working range so when you do try O-1 you wont ruin it as easy because you have become use to the more narrow forging range, by the previous working of the other steels that way :D Edited May 3, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new guy Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 (edited) i really just want to make stuff. my goal is to make a pattern welded hawk. i make things to kill time (i hurt my left shoulder and am not allowed to play sports although i can smith). i just want to make stuff. and i do work above bright orange in daylight, although so i know i am not working cold. i just want to bang away and have some fun and just be outside. in the long term i want to see what steel to get for later when i feel safe using expensive steel also when i pay off my mom (she lent my the cash for an anvil). i guess in rertrospect i sounded kinda beligerent. that was beacause i was not clear in what i was doing. sorry Edited May 3, 2009 by new guy spelling and grammar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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