brenton88 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Hy iv got some old copper tubing thats been soldiered and some copper out of some heavy eclectic cable and i would like to melt them down in to ingots but I'm new to smithing and smelting and was curious what i needed and what i needed to know before i get in over my head any help would be most appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Welcome aboard Brenton, glad to have you. Is there a reason you want to make copper ingots? The recyclers are usually more than happy if you just strip the insulation off first. If you're thinking about doing some copper casting you should pick up a book on the subject, there's more to it than just melting it down and pouring it. I'd offer specific advice but it isn't my thing so I don't know much more than to ask expert advice if I want to give it a shot. Of course that's exactly what you're asking for so good on ya. I'm sure expert advice will be along shortly, it's that kind of place. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenton88 Posted April 25, 2009 Author Share Posted April 25, 2009 thanks for the reply Frosty, their are a couple of reasons for my wanting to try this, first off i am a part time welder and a copper block or ingot is perfect for doing butt welds on a metal table, and the other is that i figure copper is one of the easier things to smelt so because I'm a beginner i thought i would try. but thanks for your advice i will try to see what i can find. Brenton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 brass and bronze are easy Copper is NOT, it tends to clump in pure/near-pure form, even 10% additions of zink or tin makes a lot of difference in pouring. Also forget ever selling those ingots, as being transformed, there is NO easy way for buyers/recyclers to know what is in it. so offer a very low price, IF they will accept it at all and most won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 A copper chill block is a useful thing for sure. Copper is not easy to melt at all, successfully casting something as simple as an ingot is a challenge. If you want to learn casting I highly recommend taking a class, joining a local club, etc. and starting with aluminum. Al is quite easy to melt and cast. You'll be surprised at how much skill is involved in getting good castings. Casting is actually the art of mold making, gating, sprueing, risers, flow patterns, flow velocity, distribution, etc. etc. all come into play. Casting is a VERY satisfying pursuit. Almost as good as forging, close but not quite by a smidge. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bentiron1946 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 When you look at the wonderful things that were cast during the Chalcolithic Age you would think that casting copper was a snap, so where did modern man go wrong? Modern mans big problem is that he made it .99999% pure with his electrical refining methods where everything that wasn't copper gets dropped to the bottom of the plating pool and shipped off somewhere else for refining. If you want to cast it add another metal to contaminate it. Originally in the Chalcolithic Age the copper that was cast had traces of arsenic, silver, gold, zinc, tin or lead in it which made it pour a lot better then pure copper. They also had a fair amount of iron floating on top as an unintentional flux to keep the copper from oxidizing prior to pouring. The iron wasn't melted but was an iron oxide ore just floating there keeping the oxygen away from the copper. We have better fluxes now and degassing agents too.:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 (edited) just a passing comment as you probably just made a typo but Melting is what most of us do. Smelting is collecting/extracting the desired metals form the ore's, Not the same process or tools. Edited April 26, 2009 by steve sells typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenton88 Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 Thank you all for your thoughts and time, but were should i start can you recommend a website or book i should find? like i stated earlier I'm vary new to this and don't know much. PS thanks Steve for clearing that up smelting was just the closest thing i thought of for what i wanted to accomplish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 26, 2009 Share Posted April 26, 2009 how about the yahoo group for home casting?HomeFoundry_and_Casting : Tools +Techniques for the Home Foundry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenton88 Posted April 26, 2009 Author Share Posted April 26, 2009 cool thanks Steve i think thats a pretty good place to start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I tried to melt some copper pipe in my forge.. in an iron ladle.... turns out that iron melts before copper... it does melt under an OA torch.... Imagine my surprise when I watched my ladle go up in sparks.... (I'll admit I may have gone with too much heat, but it was an experiment..... and I learned something) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 Copper loves to pick up O2 forming a ceramic that is nice and copper coloured but unusable and un pourable. Be sure to flux (borax can be used) and de-oxidize---stirring with a DRY DRY DRY charcoal rod can help. And yes pure copper has a pretty high melting temp---I'd suggest trading your copper scrap for a block at the recyclers rather than casting your own. I use my forge for melting metals to cast for knife fittings and it is more involved that a simple post can cover---just the safety part would cover several pages. I learned by taking an out of hours casting course through a University's Art Department. Failure is NOT AN OPTION when working with melted metals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medieval Posted April 27, 2009 Share Posted April 27, 2009 I agree that copper is tough to melt. Silicone bronze is much easier. If you just want a chill block to use for welding, buy some brass flat bar. It is readily available and works just fine. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenton88 Posted April 28, 2009 Author Share Posted April 28, 2009 thanks for the ideas and i will certainly look into them, but i still believe it would be to my benefit to learn more about casting, Evan if i have to set the copper aside for a while.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petersenj20 Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 BACKYARDMETALCASTING has a forum. Lots of info there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Steel melts well above copper but it oxidizes real well too. A steel ingot mold will work with copper but be sure to preheat it to remove **ALL** moisture or face an explosion of liquid copper all over your shop and yourself!!! real Crucibles are a must for melting copper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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