LibrariaNPC

Thanks, matto. Have you tried forge welding with it yet? Just curious as that was the reason why I went with a diamondback in the first place, and if I'm scorching the table at this range, I'm afraid of what'll happen at forging temps.

Much appreciated, DSW. I think I'm going to try the bricks and cement backing approach for the time being, and possibly move up to making a different type of stand that I can easily fold up (and not have to watch like a hawk!) sometime in the future. I'm still up for ideas for better approaches in the future, of course, so I won't object to people making more comments!

Something like that had crossed my mind when I was building my standard table. I just don't know how well balanced it would be; a forge that is fired up and internal temps are reaching the welding point falling over next to a propane tank just seems like a bad idea.

Gah, double post again due to lag. DSW is spot on here. My former rental needed a new water heater. It was put out on the curb and the following day, it was gone. I later learned that it must have been a scrapper, as the township didn't have a request for a big pickup that day. I also had a sleeper sofa outside to be disposed of. Within the first day, someone came by and ripped out all of the metal out of it and left the shell to be picked up on trash day. It's amazing what people will do for metal (which is why I'm wary of having anything outside).

Thanks for that note on the bricks! Right now I have two soft bricks left (from the failed gas forge attempts) and eight hard bricks (from my attempt at protecting the table so far), but I will keep that in mind should I need more! That's a good thing to note, notownkid. It's not the best season, but I'll still keep my ear to the ground, just in case. Storage is the issue, so I'll need to find a way to lock it. I know a number of people aren't having good luck with the housing or being where they want to be; I just felt I needed to put it out there since the consensus has been "Move!" instead of finding creative ways of resolving things. I like to joke with my family and say I'm in "Professional Purgatory," and instead of just letting it get to me, I'm doing what every librarian should do: learn new things, which is why I'm here on IFI.

njanvilman brings up a good number of questions to ask yourself: you'll want to have some of the basic skills before you get started (but experimenting can be fun!), and you should be prepared for some trial and error, even if you prepare with plenty of researched (I'm learning THAT part the hard way). If it helps, I'm in a similar situation with renting a small apartment with strict rules (township wants a picture-perfect suburbia, for example), so I feel the pain. Depending on what you want to make and how you feel like going about it, you can get away with a bucket or you'll need to move up to a shop. I have a five gallon galvanized steel tub that can hold everything I need and acts as my water quench bucket (I have a turkey fryer for oil quench) and a tool belt mounted to my "stump" to allow easy access to the tools I use most often (3 hammers, 2 tongs, wire brush and punches). My tools consist of the aforementioned stuff on the tool belt, a cordless grinder, a cordless drill, a small table and anvil stand I built with my uncle, a 134# Hay Budden anvil, a drill press vice, infrared thermometer, turkey fryer, bucket, and a forge (commercial). I've heard of people starting with much less and getting the same results. Primitive Blacksmithing is an interesting approach and makes you get creative with what you have; I was looking into the option of stump/stake anvils as a low-cost, low-space alternative before I was given a really good deal on a Hay Budden anvil. I'm still considering the investment for a portable anvil for whenever I do hammer sessions with some friends out of state. There are a number of ways of making a forge that fits into the "primitive" criteria (viking forges are pretty cool, honestly), but it's a matter of preference and what you can get away with. Before you start building, do you research, know what you want to make smithing-wise (at least for now), and most importantly: know what you can get away with in your area. For example, if you are renting property owned by the university (like a dorm), they may not allow you to have anything that generates heat, could be a weapon or could be explosive within the building. If you are renting off campus, you just have to worry about noise ordinances (look that up ASAP), space (for fuel and where to store the forge), and other environmental issues (will people complain about lots of coal smoke?). Knowing your projects helps with what you are making. A single brick gas forge is great for small projects (letter openers, knives, tapers/spikes, chisels, snakes and the like), but has a number of limitations (limited space for heating for scrolls, limited overall space for material). My first and second forges were variations of the two-brick forge with different internal spaces, but they weren't big enough for railroad spikes, not long enough for heat treating, and too fragile for my taste (one severely cracked while in use and made the burner too loose to be safely uses). Personally, if I were making another gas forge, I'd do the coffee/paint can forge. Gives you a good size, easier to mount the burners and would have probably been cheaper in the long run. Granted, you'll probably need to make a burner (prepare to need more tools) or buy one, but trust me on this: it's MUCH better to get a proper burner than to use a burnzomatic torch (I spent a good $200 on just torches/burners before I finally had one that worked). A friend mentioned getting a weed burner, but I can't tell you how well that'll work. . . I may not have the same experience as the others here, but I'm hoping you can learn from my recent mistakes and experiences as a fellow beginner. Good luck and happy forging!

Sadly, saving it for moving isn't an option unless I land a new job (application process has begun). My wife, who also has a master's degree, is only able to find work part time (and is just starting at corset making), so my salary is how we're afloat. Half of my salary is gone between rent and utilities, and that's for a cheaper place in the area! The real kicker is the requirements of the job: township employees must live in town, so while rent and property taxes are cheaper just a mile down the road, it's not an option for me if I want to keep my job (no choice at the moment). The joys of being over-educated and under employed. So in reality, it's job hunting first, THEN moving. This process can take years due to libraries getting the ax (took two years to find this one), so until then, I'd rather keep up with getting better at forging than not learning at all. Sorry for the mini-rant; I've been getting a LOT of suggestions of "You should move," but it's just not in the cards yet.

Now that makes more sense, Frosty! That could work as an option for easy storage; I'll keep that in the docket as an option when I get to Fazzio's or similar location with a metal selection. While I understand that any steel can will do, I do like having multiple purposes for everything due to those space constraints (i.e. my quench bucket is also how I carry a number of tools, my oil quench bucket is actually a turkey fryer, my table was built to allow both wood and metalwork of bladesmithing, etc). It's also just finding something that could work at this point. Heh. I'll keep the BBQ on the docket as another option in the future, but I'm already hard pressed to find a place to store it that will be secure (again, things have a habit of "walking off" around here). I'm lucky my cheapie charcoal grill has stayed, but the cover for it has already walked off, as well as one of my trash cans (which thankfully came back later that week, but still). I wasn't kidding when I said space was a premium and I bring everything back inside ^^;

But wouldn't those bricks end up getting crushed under the weight? The firebricks I made my first forges out of were of that material, and looking at it the wrong way made it fall apart.

I'm a bit surprised as well, but then again I'm also not as well experienced with these things! With the fire bricks and kaowool layed in place, and the temperatures outside (I work in the yard sans covering) hovering around 30 degrees,the underside of the table was in the 190-210 degree range after an hour. The forge was running at 8psi (max of 30), and I don't think I was anywhere NEAR welding heat yet (which this forge is technically able to do). My current ammo box that could work is currently being used as my annealing box for blades and smaller work. There are two army/navy supply places nearby that I've been meaning to hit, though, as I was looking for a slightly larger box for larger work or extra boxes for more pieces in general, just in case. That may be a good enough reason to do it, then! As for making my own stand, I'm not quite sure I follow. Are you suggesting I take a sheet for the base itself and attach it with hinges to two other sheets? The V approach sounds like a balancing act without seeing an example as to how it's done. Thank you for that input, Frosty!

Thank you for that insight, ThomasPowers. I'll keep my eyes peeled for the metals needed to make such a stand. I'm contemplating using the bricks I have with some of that cement backing. I did look into a gas grill approach (especially as someone commented on turning a gas grill into a coal forge easily enough), but haven't had luck with finding one that wasn't $100+ for a used grill in the area. Another idea I can keep in mind after I move somewhere a bit different. John, I thought the small parts were legs. As this forge doesn't have tall enough legs, do you think I should just stack a few firebricks underneath the legs (and not cover the table), and I should be good? Or should I set up a stacked approach like those suggested above? I currently have eight bricks on hand, so if I can get by with that, I can focus on getting my anvil stand set up instead of worrying about this. . .

Thanks for all the input, everyone! SpankySmith, I have a few places like that nearby but haven't had any luck just yet. There are a few more I can look into, just finding the time to do so. Sadly, I really can't leave things outside; things tend to "walk off" around here too often (down the road from the town with the highest crime rate in NJ), thus why I do everything in portable ways. DSW, I was considering the cement board as a cheap approach after doing the research as a way to hold me over until I can do something better. I did try to post a few photos, but sadly the site won't let me do so at the moment. If you do a search for Diamondback Forge, you'll find the site with the images easily enough. njanvilman, I'm saving the Fazzio's run until I get a bit more cash on hand (been playing catch up and paying for my classes at Peter's Valley) and when I can borrow my uncle's truck (as my little car will be limited in how much stock I can carry). I'm partially tempted to try to recreate my current table approach in steel, but I'm curious if it'll be too much weight to carry back and forth.

No complaints with hot punching (was doing that to make the brackets to mount my anvil before my boards for my too-small stand split); rivets are on the docket as I make tongs, but I need the forge to do that practice. I'll keep the saw horse leg table idea in mind for a future project with my uncle (who has all of the wood cutting tools I don't have the storage for).

With the idea of using a pair of saw horses, what would you suggest the table top to be? I didn't know of that approach; my experiences in hardware stores is rather limited. I'll keep that in mind the next time I swing out to Home Depot or Lowes to see if they have the materials and something to use as a top plate. Still up for every idea, because it'll be another week until I can do this (the joys of waiting for paychecks, heh).

As many of you know, I'm a beginner that is strapped for space; I live in a small apartment with my wife (a beginner corset maker) and haul everything into the yard each day I want to forge. I try to make everything I have multi-purpose, but if this can't work, please call me out on it. I have a Diamondback Two Burner Blacksmith forge that I've been setting up on a wooden table. The first time I fired it up, I only had kaowool underneath the forge, and it left a rather large char mark with a good deal of smoke. I went out afterward and invested into some fireplace bricks from Tractor Supply, as that was one of the suggestions I was given to protect whatever was underneath. Sadly, this still lead to more damage (and a good amount of smoke as I removed the bricks!). I'm now at the point where I have to consider my options. If it's possible to keep the table, I'd rather do that due to space, but I know that doing so may pose a risk. Here are the options I've been considering: Option 1: Buying a stand. Not a lot of fun, but it's there. Space and cost are the issues for this approach. If you have a suggestion for a stand, especially if it's both affordable AND collapsible, I'm all ears! (I know chileforge sells a collapsible stand, but that's a sizeable cost for a stand) Option 2: Building a stand. Again, space is an issue, but I also lack the tools (like a welder) and the knowledge (how to weld) to fabricate something out of metal. I would essentially have to ask someone to make a stand, which is similar to Option 1. Option 3: Disposable Stands. I dislike wasting things, so I'd rather not make a stand that will burn (and possibly ignite near a propane tank) to eventually be disposed of. Option 4: Reinforcing the table. Someone I met at the local farmer's market suggested that I just put a scrap piece of granite on the table, then put the fireplace bricks on top of it in order to protect the table. My aunt and uncle suggested a large chunk of steel (I'm wary as steel can conduct heat rather well), or spraying the table with the same insulation spray that is used for ovens. I read through >this thread recently, and >Frosty mentioned the idea of using cement backboard as a method of protecting the table. I'm curious if any of these will work to at least prolong the table's life until a bigger place is found, or to at least reduce the amount of tables I'll be making. As always, I appreciate any help the collective wisdom here is willing to offer. Thanks in advance for any help!

Gotcha. Thanks Neil! Again, I'll be setting up this weekend as long as it's not raining/snowing, so hopefully I can put these notes to good use!

Thanks Dogsoldat! I'll add that to the list when I'm at a PC I can listen to things (i.e. not at work), as I've learned that sometimes, they say something more important than they show. I'll give one of the videos a watch tomorrow during a break, then!

Thanks for that tip, Nick. I was curious as most of the instructions and suggested materials I see for forging tongs are bits of square stock (I think ONE was round stock), so it made me wonder if there was just a general dislike or if there was some limiting factor or concern I didn't know about.

So far I've kept every receipt for every purchase I've made for my blacksmithing tools (only thing without it is my anvil, which was purchased from a member here). I've been meaning to put it all into an excel document just to keep a running tally (a friend is doing a blog and we're comparing notes on "getting started"). Photos are on the back burner due to to the constant shuffling of location and new acquisitions, but I'll keep that in mind! As for indexing photos, there's no CLEAN way of doing that unless you make your own indexing system using folders. For example, in my case, I'd have a folder for anvils, tongs, hammers, stock, forges/burners, etc. You could store them on your computer, but you may want to consider a cloud based option like Dropbox or even Google Drive (as a fire or theft will remove that option from you). Alternatively, if you are really into making sure you have it all covered, you could take an approach some libraries utilize with digital photos: set up an digital archive through a service and give each photo a name and a few tags (like we have for our threads here). This might end up costing money (library school already had it paid for me, so. . .), but if you REALLY want everything easy to access with a quick search, this might be a functional approach. Personally, I'd rather the photos in folders and saving them to the cloud to save money and sanity.

Nice deal and welcome to IFI!

Thanks for the metal note, Nick. Your tongs are looking good, there! John, that is an awesome source there! I'll add that to my list of resources to explore in greater detail for more project ideas/education purposes (especially with the welding notes). On that note, is it possible/sane to make tongs out of round stock, or should I specifically be going with bar stock?

Bob, I'm currently waiting for a clear day when I'm not at work to set up the forge again (I'm in the yard, so no overhead coverings and lacking proper lighting to work at night), so I'm asking questions while I wait. Doing research on downtime seems to be much better than wasting time doing nothing and then wasting material when I DO get started, wouldn't you agree? If all goes well, I should be able to fire it up on Friday afternoon and experiment again. I have a knife I started and shaped last Monday (just need to clean it now that it's annealed), so I'll be sharing that and any other experiments I can work on this weekend. JME, thanks for explaining that. I don't have any experience with 4140 (my small experiences are with 1048 and W-2), so I had to ask before I ended up doing something potentially hazardous and wasteful. And that makes perfect sense with the rivet. Now, is there a reason to not to just make the rivet with the (almost) finished piece? I assume it's due to heat and the possibility of expanding within the space (and being useless as a hinge), but I don't know if that's correct in this case. Thanks again for the input!

When you say that the tongs "heated up to red and lasted a couple of heats," was there something wrong with how it was used or is that just a risk with making your own tongs? When using the nut and bolt method to hold the tongs together, are there any risks when using them that I should be aware of? V shaped seems to have the most potential, apparently, so I'll try for that. Bolt tongs look really useful for spikes, but I don't believe I'm at that level JUST yet to produce the correct sizes. As for the rivets: basically I'd just drill a hole into some thicker metal I have (tool steel? Harbor Freight anvil anchor?) to reach the length I want, then while the heated metal is in, I just hammer it to make the rivet head? If so, how is the rivet going to secure the tongs? Am I missing something here? Thanks again for the input so far!

I'm considering making a few sets of tongs in the near future, but wanted to make sure I'm not forgetting something. I have a few questions just to make sure I'm reading into things correctly, and would appreciate any help that the collected wisdom here could provide. 1) Materials: Is there a suggestion regarding what to use? I've read the mild steel will work, but I've seen a number of sources state that most tools should be made of tool steel, thus the question. 2) Design: Is there a good suggestion for a "first set of tongs" that will be versatile enough to get started? I have a set of wolf jaw tongs I purchased to get started, but I feel like they don't handle as well as others for what I do. Most of my work, for now, will be in various basics (scrolling, general shaping, etc) with mild steel, knives, and trying out experiments with railroad spikes. 3) Holding Them Together: What would be the suggested way to bolt them in place? I don't have much beyond my anvil, hammers, and that stubborn determination to make things work out, so I'm curious if that's enough or will I need something special, like a bolt/nail header. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Hello Chan and welcome aboard! This forum really is a great resource to reach out to local smiths as well as learn a number of things. I'm still trying to find the opportunity to finish reading just a fraction of what is offered here, but I have made contact with a number of locals that make this forum worth more than gold! I hope you find some great information here. Happy smithing!