double_edge2

and my apologies james leland, for allowing myself to be ....distracted into,... not your thread.....nice forge bloke, awesome from what you had available, however you run it.

and please, to all, that i would consider to be blacksmiths, i consider myself, at most, a pretend blacksmith and have never tried to over honor myself with the title "Blacksmith" i just muck around alot. and yes i agree. when i started money and availability was the issue, i liked coal, when the cheap coal stopped i had to change. its a habbit developed from not wanting to waste any more than i had to with charcoal. now i think its impatience, used to have to light then quench as forging, and quench when finnished to conserve. spent weeks over winter making it and didnt like wasting it. so a smaller fire became the norm unless soaking bigger jobs. scale is at times plentiful with the higher heat and scarce at a lower heat. best invention i think was the cordless angle grinder with a wire brush on it.:D

and sorry not to answer the blade question, usually straight , and final balance with spots from the mig if you like. and car thermal fan size from a small pully.

i was waiting for that.........lol actually according to relativity...to me, you lot .......lol

howdy all:rolleyes:.....how much do you pay for your fuel, and or how much time do you invest in making, ie, charcoal? and how much do you use in a day if time permits a day(for hobby), and commercial. just out of interest if its an interesting enough topic for the forum. here in brisbane, its costs me, $25-$30 a bag for charcoal. it costs about $100 for a 44 gal drum of coal if they con you to be a member of somewhere or something i got told. it costs about $25-$30 to fill a 9kg gas bottle. i use very little gas in the gassy but when the big ones finnished i will pass it on. i can use up to nearly a bag doing big steel all day.

oh hey, im sure if i had an endless supply of charcoal for free i might use charcoal like coal, or try a different way...but here unless youre on a huge tree'd property making your own, its about $25 to $30 a bag.(and the bags are getting smaller!) and coal i hear from the guys around is $100 for a 44 gal drum or $250 a ton if you are in a click. i used to pay seven dollars a bag!...actually, good thread topic.:)

ok that would be middle....extreme might be no drill, just the dull bit, 10mm hole in h13? sorry

try drilling hadened 4140.,,,then drill mild, any where in between is half hard with a hand crank drill....:)

yes an inch.....sorry, if dont have enough knowledge and ive been doing it all wrong, please let me know and ill be happy to instantly keep doing it my way:D ,,, i cant run anything 4 inches (100mm) above the drain except the top part of bigger steel. the new longer forge has a 20mm dip (no deeper) so i can sit on top and i can build up if i like. the hot piece sat "in", the proto type which was 1 inch deep. it is about 20" long by 2" wide by 3/4 thick. 20mm heaps for minimum and 1-and a bit inches for the bottom of the big jobs at most for me, unless casting. this is what works for me. the first pic the top would be 2-3 inches above the drain. i use a collar for casting to ensure the crucible is covered for 2 and 3 kilo melt of copper.....ill get a pic... im wrong, the drain to the top on my normal forge would be total inch and a bit maybe 2 inches. and i have never had the bootom of a job (hammers and the like) sit anywhere near the top lip(thats why i had to cut my flaps/slots at iether side to get long stuff low enough to heat without wasting a heap of charcoal) . the casting collar is about 4 inches deep and is half a wheel rim i hacked up with the plasma. the only steel i did with the collar on was 4" X 4" peice of h/c to see if i could saturate it for welding and a casting test.

looks to me it was a treadle type. you look to need a big wheel to the little. you could put a handle in the middle of the large though more effort would be required. casing looks good, rivet new blades would be awesome. and a bush seems to be missing for the belt driven end so drill up another. if you didnt want to do the hand thing another way as said, would be put a motor ac or dc, dc might be easier to control. or use the gearing out of an old mountain bike, actually the whole back half of one, take the rear tyre off etc, as an idea for the treadle system or ragnarok's, go hunt an treadle. good project though:D

there are better steels, better suited for different jobs, ive used it as drifts and punches on small stuff and it needs constant touching up, if you have nothing else, go with it. i normally use a lot of it for iron work and jigs. and tongs....and it comes in party size for spring dies.....got a couple of 40mm and bigger dia.

firstly, you advice is correct, yes deep for more of a neutral thing, or larger jobs, but for small (and most) jobs 20 -30 mm is fine, i, dont want to waste that much charcoal and water. and control blast, not without scale if you want blast. i only have fires that big when im doing big steel or casting. and even then, 4 inches above the air?even big jobs sit an inch or two at most. i like lots of holes, more even distribution at lower volume and pressure and i get, the focus of clean heat where i want it without using a collars or water or wasting a third of a bag of charcoal every heat. 3 hole you lose one or two from cloging as i have had experience with (using the slots thing i saw off ebay and had to make one cos they looked cool) and i have to stop and kill the furnace to clear the clog or put up with the black spot. my knives and the like turn out fine for me, and at a low idle, i cant hear the forge running. i started with coal and coke for a couple of years and had to go to charcoal for a lack of availability and though have only been using charcoal for 7 or 8 years, wrong or ill advised you seem to gesture, as picked up from guys like graham watson and the like with charcoal, i like, and instruct the way i was steered. but whatever works for whoever, use it. im done, ok for all experts to throw stones now:D

hey, as long as youre having a go. you learn along the way. now you have a set there will be no end. and yes it gets brittle with quenching. its a good tool steel for dies though. good show.

i use a tin and only back quench enough to hang on to, or oxy a longer handle for yourself. and above all, enjoy the making.

nice effort. keep it up. i think there is a blue print on ifi for a set of tongs from flat using the anvil edge, practice on whatever you have but chase up some say...30mm by 10-12 mm. for your tongs..unless light duty is all you are after. do you quench alot? or just too cold where the break is? i did these from 1" by 1/4"or just over and the scroll by 1/2" square, very light duty with the scroll, i stuffed up and went a bit thin on the hinge. and yes keep making them till you get the ones you want.

awesome! call it capt. Ahab...looks like it has a wooden leg. i would probly dome a piece of sheet for the drain and make some 1/4 " holes although what you have done will work. if you cut some slots for your long work to go through to get it lower, eg. to heat a long piece, you only need to be about 20mm above the drain covered in charcoal.

just about ready for test got blackboard chalk....probably calcium sulfate... plumbers chalk was silicone dioxide.....might give that a swerve. no shop around has calcium carbonate.......selbys.

once you work out your route, let me know when brisbane pops up on your list.

if its the real grainy type wrought iron keep it hot and dont move it too far too quickly without the hammer or swedges to keep it together. i had to lots of cover up tapping, or it shows its very strandy self. to be honest, i had to start another peice and go slower.

one of the things i first got told, was a forge is like a mill or lathe, make the tools for the things you wish to repeat for the best result. i have yet to see this teaching faulted. the other bit was there is an order or sequences for, without and with tools, learn them both. thanks for showing and sharing your extremely nice work, skills and timeless methods.

got a test peice. i ...... might pre drill, then drift. or power hammer. i pre drill and then by hand hammer. 45mm

im looking at making a mankel type forge aswell and just rang for prices. heavy fire brick $5.00 each same for the light bricks. cms castable refractory 1650 is $2.40 a kilo (25 kg bag) cms mortar 165 aw is $2.20 a kg (25kg pale) insowool 7m by 600mm $200.00 this is walk in off street price. i might have to follow your recipe and ship the ingredients that i cant get from the states i think, *** the point!,,,....to find the cheap reflective castable or paint on refractory. i was going to use 3mm steel for the covers the bottom would be a layer of steel, 1" wool, heavy fire brick. removable walls would be the light fire brick. top would be wool 2" or 2 layers and then the steel for the burners so i was thinking 3 - 5mm top plate and 3mm sides. the questions are..... 1)... how would i mount the wool? 1A)... what do i use to hold the layers or wool that wont get destroyed in the heat? 3) or do i coat the wool ( turning it into a slab ) and use tabs around the edge to keep it in place? 4) should i mortar the light brick into 1 slab and do the tab around the edge thing? these are my reason, for posting this in the first place and i have an old furnace not quite reaching weld heat and wanted to white it to see if it would reach the heat. mike

i got a fair idea about plaster, tried it for casting ages ago....not the best unless in a mixture of some sort as you say, used to paint the outside of a foam cast as the containment, two sprews and done. sodium i have played with too, good for annoying the ducks, still got all my fingers though. funny you should mention the zircon thing.....just happen to have a plant nearby, always provides entertainment when they stuff things up, once, the furnace went berzerk and the furnace room door blew off nearly hitting the guy i was talking to the next day. the whole area lost power overnight, and the size of the carbon rods they use! screw together to make an endless rod. i think he said at the time there were only two or three mobs in australia that did it. he did say that they were a small plant compared to the one big one. should hit him up for a bucket full, and some info. chalk also used as a flux for pottery and cramics i think in glazing. helps the stuff flow and stick in heat.

lol.....yup do the sample thing as stated by ThomasPowers. dont want to wreck the good thing you've made.

a few on the forum, and me, have made hammers from it so i dont see why a good test is not in order...since mostly, the tool wood be manipulating hot steel(3 hits then quench for chisel)? and if not just make sure the stuff you are hitting it with is softer. brittle most certainly, as with any treated steel i think the risk is always there of chipping more so without tempering... lol...id be wearing the safety goggles and snorkle. worth giving it a good go for self learning and posting the results.....