Avadon

Cool article Ten Hammers I made the drive over to harbor freight today and got a handheld 15$ media blaster. All they had was walnut shells of 24grit or the aluminum oxide at 70 grit so I went with the aluminum. But before I try that I tried soaking some steel and some copper in straight distilled vingear. There was no damage to the copper or the steel even after 5 hours so I feel fairly safe dunking the base of the piece. I figure i'll soften up the rust/oxide/scale overnight then tommorow blast it with air/water first and see how that works, anthing left i'll hit with the aluminum media. As much as I'd love to blow the bank on a media blasting hopper, a computer purchase and then a gas forge purchase are my next big toys. ;D I'll have pics of these candlesticks up here soon. I think you all will be fairly impressed. Definitely one of the more time consuming and laborious projects i've ever done.

oooo Most excellent. That is exactly what the doctor ordered! Thank you for the find. I'll give either one of those a shot.

Yikes.. hmm.. thank you all for the expert help. This is a candle sculpture piece that i've worked many weeks on. I would put it's lowest value at 1500-2000 (there are two pieces). There is also some leaded areas. I'm not sure if those would react dangerously to muriatic acid? What does lead and muriatic acid do? Anything toxic? I like the media blastinig but I don't have a hopper. It's a small enough area I could blast it outside. How do you rig up something like that. I have a monster porter cable compressor 175psi so the pressure is no problem. I just don't want to have to buy a sandblaster for 150$ for 5 mins use.

Yikes I didn't even think about the elctrolytic factor. Would vinegar do the same?

I have a candlestick base that has a rather complex rose shape made of mild steel. Inside the rose shape is a spire(tower) of wound copper. I don't have a medial blaster and there is no way I can get the wire wheel inside all those metal rose petals which have intricate and deep folds. So I guess I need some sort of pickel bath that will strip off that tough scale from forging but also not ruin the copper in the center. I'm guessing I need some sort of pickle bath. I've heard of people using vinegar, but is this strong enough to destroy the bond of steel and scale? and would it eat at the copper? Should I use something like muriatic acid or battery acid instead? I'd rather do something less castic if possible, but whatever works the best is what I'm going to need to use. I'm going to paint the rose when i'm done. Thanks

Why do people make these things? For artistic use? I'm pretty sure it's illegal in most states to use them.

So are you suggesting it's somewhat toxic? Or is that msds just being extra cautious. How does it stand in toxicity to mineral oil?

What kind of oil does everyone suggest?

@ Drenched in flame. Learning to use gravers well or even exceptionally well is like wanting to be a master sculptor, while forging excellent blades is like wanting to be a master painter. It's a great deal to ask of a person. If your serious about putting not just inordinate amounts of time but also a great deal of money into this talent then it is not an unreasonable goal. There are lots of books on engraving, using gravers, as well as on pattern welded blades, knife making, etc on amazon.com and at your local borders and barnes and nobles. This is a good place to start. I think your question though is putting the cart before the horse. Learning to engrave blades is like wanting to learn how to expertly decorate cakes before you even understand how to bake. If you just want to learn to engrave and the whole engraving on swords is just an idea then you should try the engravers cafe (google it). It's a web forum like iforgeiron Everyone is right here about putting in your dues, not because we advocate elitism or any esoteric knowledge of bladesmithing, but rather because laying down the fundamentals are vital to have a solid understanding. Once you have those down then branching off to engraving, etching, stamping, etc will be far more reasonable.

What about band saw blades? I'd imagine if you have enough blade you could forge pretty mean blades out of them correct? After all they are high carbon but also flexible enough so as not to be brittle? I also was at the dump one day and saw this thing that looked like a wagon wheel but it was like a coil of 3/4" wide 1/8th inch thick flat steel (like a ribbon sorta) coiled up. I'm not sure what this stuff is but it was hard as heck to cut. It must be some kind of high carbon steel. It looked old, totally rusted, like some kind of rustic looking thing from a farm. Anyone know what this stuff is, and if it would be good for forging into blades?

okay thanks, i was just worried about putting dissimilar metals into the grain of the metal. In aircraft mechanics the big scare was always about using tooling on dissimilar metals because of dissimilar metal corrosion. Guess that's no real problem here.

I just forged a little aluminum on my anvil and I mean a very little aluminum and I noticed the aluminum leaves what almost looks like light crayon marks out of aluminum. I suppose it's slag of some sort? How does one get this off? Or does one even worry about it? Seems like mixing ferrous and non-ferrous is a bad idea? :confused:

good information minaraimono!

Interesting, but why use water when you can junst use a hand brush or even better a small wire wheel in a pneumatic right angle die grinder. When the steel is hot the mill scale comes of quite easily with any wire wheel or even hard wire scrub brush? Perhaps I drag heels because putting water on my Gladiator anvil seems sacrelig lol

This is the first i've heard of it as well. Why would you risk water around explosively high heat when there are media blasters, wire wheels, expander wheels etc. etc. ad nasium for removing scale after the forging. Not to mention adjusting the mixture as noted above.

Sounds like your describing my exact circumstance. I dont' have a forge inside and it's to darn cold to work outside lol so i've been heating things up with oxy/acet which is really expensive since my torch is basically just sitting there always on, albeit a low flame. I know people have talked about gas savers, but I think that's a bandaid when my real problem is I just need a gas forge. Everything you said makes total sense. Is there a chart somewhere that gives relative heat for using wood, coal, coke, in coal forges? Or could even a chart like this be made? On Gasers how do people vent them? From the pics i've seen in catalogs they look like they just expell the heat into the room? Am I missing the attachment where they hook up to some kinda ventilation. I noticed that when forging with my torch on for a few hours I get kinda a dry/sore throat. I'm getting it's something with the burning of the oxy/acet and probably not 'enough' ventilation. Although I do have storm windows in my basement and fan creating draft. Of course in cold N.E. weather it's almost unbearable to get a significant draft going; i might as well work outside then.

ahhh okay I get it. So Gassers have a different ideology for forges though right? They are basically like a large convection oven bringing a small space up to the desire heat, correct? In this case wouldn't the entire inside of a Gas forge be considered the fuel mass?

I've already built a really good coal forge and it drafts quite well. It actually has a hood that overarches the firepot perhaps 2' above it and reaching over about 50% of the firepots diameter. Here is a rough view So I am wondering if coal forges that actually encase the entire fire pot, and mimic the design of gassers, heat hotter or are more efficient? Seems lke an ecased coal forge would work like an oven and reach higher temperatures quicker then the average firepot design where most of the heat is instantly lost into the non-enclosed atmosphere or right up the flu. Can someone tell me if I am correct in these assumptions?

I've been using Safety Glasses USA - Safety Glasses and Protective Eyewear for Work or Play for virtually all my eye protection needs. Good company. I generally stay away from anything clear when i'm working with a oxy/acet torch for more then a few mins or when taking things up to orange heat. Shade 3 or at the very least some IR protection is warranted.

I actually saw someone do lettering on a blade (I think it was on "how it's made") where they didn't put the whole blade in acid but rather did some sort of either chemical or electro-chemical etching right on the blade using some kind of a stamp. They didn't wax the blade either. But again Ii think it was more of a watermark and not doing a larger embossing or writing, in which case Dan's suggestion is better. You might want to ask the guys at Caswell Plating or other companies who know specifically about etching processes. The other idea would be to engrave, or have it engraved.

That's pretty nice, wonder if you could weld on a flat area to store your fuel as a makeshift hearth? After using a hair dryer on my first forge I couldn't see really ever wanting to do the whole hand crank thing. I'm just one person and i'm to busy with the work to crank the blower, tend the forge, and actually think about my work all at once. Plus i'm lazy lol

Interesting. I never thought about it that way. It's like your annealing/heating and your hardening at the same time so they basically eliminate each other. I'm sure on big anvils it really is almost undetectable. Although on my smaller little 10lb anvil I wonder if it's more possible.

Simple Question: Do ASO Anvils work harden during use? And what about other non-aso High Quality Cast Steel Anvils. Do these get hader over time?

Thanks for the advice Glenn. I think i'm going to weld me up a serious metal stand. I like the idea of being able to have you feet under the anvil for more action Also those that know me know that I did woodworking all through middle and highschool, roughly 6 years so i've done just about everything one can do with wood and now I can't stand it, i'm all burnt out on wood, pardon the pun.

I'm always always removing scale since I make tools and fabricate weld and forge. The two things i've used the most over the years are abrasives and wire wheels. Now I have not yet used a large hopper with media blasting but I'd love to some day. This is how the pros usually do their cleaning and prep work prior to painting. They used to use glass beads, now I believe they use a talc and even fine ground walnut shells in some cases. In any case it leaves a nice matte finish on your metal. Now sanding will leave a brighter finish, and wire wheels will leave almost a brushed shiney to matte finish depending on if your wheel is course or fine. So for sanding I use a right angle pnuematic die grinder with 1-2" type roloc abrasive discs in it. You will see these around tons of shops. They work great for small tight areas. For larger areas or thicker scale you can use various abrasive discs in your angle grinder. You can start with grinding discs and then move up through the sand paper type discs from lowes/depot (they are cheap 1.50$ or so a piece) pretty cheap. They also make very tough abrasive wheels for your right angle grinder http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/paint-stripping/clean&strip.jpg for stripping. Now if your not using a pneumatic or electric grinder the wire wheel is the other thing I use, virtually all the time. and these go on bench grinders/buffers and you can get them in fine and course steel and in fine and course brass. They work excellently. Just hold your part well so it doesn't catch and wear safety goggles cause sometimes it will throw little wires around at high speed. I use wire wheels on my jet buffer. Of course any of these products will also work..